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Rust Moderation Team Resigns

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Re: Rust Moderation Team Resigns

#661

Post by kazinator »

canaus wrote: post #442
folkrav wrote: post #384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm genuinely curious: why should contributors have to endure someone's toxicity if something can be done about it? In professional settings, I've seen colleagues get fired over bad behavior, and not for the lack of competence - and I can safely say the team's morale and productivity went right up each time. I fail to see how this couldn't be applicable to open source projects that wish to do it as well, as you'll ty…

And not even just contributors. Users of your project might not want to interact with your team. If I encounter a bug and want to create an issue, but I either see racism within communication, or just overall negativity in comments from members, why would I continue with your project? I could just as easily be subjected to it.

> why would I continue with your project

Because I have important stuff in my life that depends on it; business, workflows at work, IT infrastructure, ...

Re: Rust Moderation Team Resigns

#662

Post by worik »

thegrimmest wrote: post #538
canaus wrote: post #529

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wasn't familiar with Curtis Yarvin, but in looking him up, you can't be serious, right? >Yarvin's online writings, many under his pseudonym Mencius Moldbug, convey blatantly racist views. He expresses the belief that white people are genetically endowed with higher IQs than black people. He has suggested race may determine whether individuals are better suited for slavery, and his writing has been interpreted as su…

I just disagree that standing in his presence is a matter of safety for anyone. It's possible to hold abhorrent views and still be a useful contributor.

It is hyperbole

Not evil, an exaggeration but still: would you want to be in the presence of some body so bigoted? Who thought you inferior because because because?

Re: Rust Moderation Team Resigns

#663

Post by jmull »

wyager wrote: post #464
porker wrote: post #364

This is a real shame. From the early days of Rust (pre-2018?) I built up this mental picture of it having a considerably better run and governed community, with people putting time into thinking about how a community should work rather than it being something that's ignored because "we're here to write code and managing a product is a waste of time". I lost touch (the last video I watched which might be the one that…

> with people putting time into thinking about how a community should work The sort of people who try to intentionally "plan" (I.e. socially engineer) community dynamics do not have a great historical record of actually creating good communities. History is littered with failed inorganic communities - from cults and communes to web forums with overzealous mods. Not saying that's necessarily what happened here, just t…

History is also littered with failed organically formed communities, right?

Re: Rust Moderation Team Resigns

#664

Post by kristjansson »

rStar wrote: post #656

RUST MODERATION TEAM: (“we believe ourselves and our feelings to be more important than rust as a whole so we hope to watch it crash and burn”)… RUST RIVAL EXECUTIVES, previously :EXEC#1: (“well you know it looks like we have the C replacement for the next 50 years, it’s free, it’s secure, it scales, and it’s been developed out in the open. this is definitely cutting into our business johnson, what can we do about th…

It's funny, but ... what business would that be?

Re: Rust Moderation Team Resigns

#665

Post by hitekker »

wyager wrote: post #464
porker wrote: post #364

This is a real shame. From the early days of Rust (pre-2018?) I built up this mental picture of it having a considerably better run and governed community, with people putting time into thinking about how a community should work rather than it being something that's ignored because "we're here to write code and managing a product is a waste of time". I lost touch (the last video I watched which might be the one that…

> with people putting time into thinking about how a community should work The sort of people who try to intentionally "plan" (I.e. socially engineer) community dynamics do not have a great historical record of actually creating good communities. History is littered with failed inorganic communities - from cults and communes to web forums with overzealous mods. Not saying that's necessarily what happened here, just t…

I think the phenomena you're getting at is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intellectualization and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rationalization_(psychology). The first is thinking to prevent feeling, and the second is thinking to soften the feeling.

Both kinds of thinking are natural. Defense mechanisms are always present in the process of making up our minds. But if defense mechanisms are allowed to dominate our thought process-- to kill feelings before they can provoke new thoughts-- the result will be indecisive, ambiguous writing that implicitly dumps the burden of resolving the anxiety, resentments and other dark feelings, onto the author's audience.

An elite who publishes their overthinking signals their inability to resolve their feelings or the feelings of the people they have power over.

Re: Rust Moderation Team Resigns

#666

Post by throwaway2077 »

bb010g wrote: post #577
throwaway2077 wrote: post #527

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>overreacted to, and/or taken out of context. change the race and/or sex in those quotes

that's not how minorities and/or affirmitive action work? thank you for your bold take, throwaway2077

so those quotations would be unacceptable if they were aimed at any other group, regardless of context and without statute of limitation, correct?

I could make a point by citing some examples here, but I would probably get banned.

Re: Rust Moderation Team Resigns

#668

Post by thegrimmest »

worik wrote: post #662
thegrimmest wrote: post #538

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just disagree that standing in his presence is a matter of safety for anyone. It's possible to hold abhorrent views and still be a useful contributor.

It is hyperbole Not evil, an exaggeration but still: would you want to be in the presence of some body so bigoted? Who thought you inferior because because because?

Yes? They might have other useful ideas or opinions that I may benefit from being exposed to. People are multidimensional.

If there is a conference being organized about some technology, I'd like to see speakers who have the most to contribute, on that merit only. I couldn't care less if they march around with armbands on in their spare time. I'm suggesting that more people learn to compartmentalize.

Re: Rust Moderation Team Resigns

#669

Post by cyber_kinetist »

avinassh wrote: post #659
cyber_kinetist wrote: post #616

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the mod team who resigned were precisely the ones behind moderating those Reddit/Discourse threads though. So I don't think there was animosity between the two teams from the start, but rather that tensions grew over the years until it became unmanageable. My interpretation is that the drama happening around the core team (like the things you've mentioned) gets increasingly overwhelming for the mod team to handle…

> But the mod team who resigned were precisely the ones behind moderating those Reddit/Discourse threads though. I thought same as well, but seems reddit mods are different: > Please note that the official Rust moderation team is not the same organization as the team that moderates the subreddit here on /r/rust. The subreddit is an unofficial space, and though it is frequented by many who are affiliated with the proj…

Yes, as you’ve said, some of the mods in the Mod team were also the subreddit mods, and they deleted the comments and locked the threads by their own volition (even without requirement from the Core team, so this reinforces my interpretation). It’s likely that the Mod team wasn’t adversarial with the Core team from the start, but tensions gradually grew as the drama surrounding the core team got unmanageable.

Re: Rust Moderation Team Resigns

#670

Post by [deleted] »

porker wrote: post #364

This is a real shame. From the early days of Rust (pre-2018?) I built up this mental picture of it having a considerably better run and governed community, with people putting time into thinking about how a community should work rather than it being something that's ignored because "we're here to write code and managing a product is a waste of time". I lost touch (the last video I watched which might be the one that…

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