Why does a language need a “moderation team”? C++ seems to do fine without one.
Arguably there's too much of it.
Rust Moderation Team Resigns
461–470 of 912 posts
Re: Rust Moderation Team Resigns
#462Programming Language authors love to formalize everything , but did Rust really need all of these rules and moderators to begin with?
Absolutely, yes. A growing community needs healthy management in order to avoid reputational damage to the core language. There's no shortage of guidance to "stay away from X tech because the community is toxic and non-serious"
In my experience the people who, when asked about the technical merits of X, immediately dive into value judgements of a “community” around it are best ignored.
If these types of people are in leadership positions, it’s too late and you need to move. If they’re below you, then you need to limit their reach and upward mobility.
Usually fair application of performance standards will flush them out anyways. Often people like that in your organization are shielded by a manager that’s protecting them.
Re: Rust Moderation Team Resigns
#463>"In this message, we have avoided airing specific grievances beyond unaccountability. We've chosen to maintain discretion and confidentiality. We recommend that the broader Rust community and the future Mod Team exercise extreme skepticism of any statements by the Core Team (or members thereof) claiming to illuminate the situation." I guess these are the juicy details they are choosing to omit - https://archive.fo/f…
That seems to be node.js drama... not sure what it has to do with rust.
Re: Rust Moderation Team Resigns
#464This is a real shame. From the early days of Rust (pre-2018?) I built up this mental picture of it having a considerably better run and governed community, with people putting time into thinking about how a community should work rather than it being something that's ignored because "we're here to write code and managing a product is a waste of time". I lost touch (the last video I watched which might be the one that…
> with people putting time into thinking about how a community should work
The sort of people who try to intentionally "plan" (I.e. socially engineer) community dynamics do not have a great historical record of actually creating good communities. History is littered with failed inorganic communities - from cults and communes to web forums with overzealous mods.
Not saying that's necessarily what happened here, just that people putting a lot of thought into how to control/manage a community might be more of a negative sign than a positive one.
Re: Rust Moderation Team Resigns
#465Tough times for Rust. The hype resp. honeymoon is over. Adoption is kind of plateauing - at least from my perspective. I've invested in Rust and don't regret it so far. I love the language and the tooling. However, I'm not sure if I'd choose Rust again. Those politics are really disturbing, see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28515306 .
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Re: Rust Moderation Team Resigns
#466Curious, why did a project of programming language hire a multi-person moderation team in the first place? That's the OSS version of HR? Or is it equivalent to a team of diversity and inclusion?
More likely the latter. HR usually has a mission to protect the company (project in this case). CoC and its moderation usually just serve the purpose of virtue signaling or maybe even carrying out a digital version of a struggle session, so D&I seems like a good analog.
Re: Rust Moderation Team Resigns
#467Earlier quoted context omitted.
Counterexample: Linux, GCC, Python, and practically the entire free software ecosystem from before the current crazy for hall-monitory-y supervision from above. It is simply demonstrably, factually, clearly not true that a growing community needs the kind of structures that Rust imposed on itself. It really makes me sad that a certain kind of person these days sees some kind of censorious overlord as essential for th…
Linux with Linus, who famously had to change his abusive tone? GCC with Richard Stallman, accused of various kinds of sexual misconduct? Python, which felt it necessary to impose a CoC eventually? Your counter examples are questionable at best.
Richard Stallman was accused of ""sexual misconduct"" ?
Re: Rust Moderation Team Resigns
#468Earlier quoted context omitted.
Who's to say that more contributors are turned off by Rust-style behavioral micromanagement? It's impossible to prove counterfactuals. All we can say for sure is that dozens of critical projects in the past reached an amazing level of quality and importance to humanity without tone police lurking in the background and supervising it all.
If your greatest concern is some technical artifact and not the human beings in the community around you, kindly go touch grass.
The purpose and greatest concern of a development team is and should be the development of a technical artifact.
Re: Rust Moderation Team Resigns
#469Earlier quoted context omitted.
Absolutely, yes. A growing community needs healthy management in order to avoid reputational damage to the core language. There's no shortage of guidance to "stay away from X tech because the community is toxic and non-serious"
Examples? EDIT: it's remarkable that there's none, aside of "someone said something"
Hacker News. There's an entire subreddit based off of the comments on here.
Re: Rust Moderation Team Resigns
#470"we're resigning, but not saying why; just believe us anyway". Really?