Earlier quoted context omitted.
Protecting people's privacy is a fundamental principle of justice, too. It's extremely common for court records in cases regarding people's conduct to be sealed. Forcing people to air all their dirty laundry in public, as the Puritans did, is not just, and tends to severely limit already-marginalized people's access to justice.
I have been a lawyer for over a decade. In exactly one case that I've ever litigated or supervised has any of the evidence been placed under seal. What jurisdiction do you practice in, that you're seeing this so commonly?
Rust Moderation Team Resigns
381–390 of 912 posts
Re: Rust Moderation Team Resigns
#382Is there any tech consequence to this immature drama? I'm confused as to whether I should care or not. If there are consequences on the tech, people need to spell that out. Right now this all seems like some middle-school playground emotional drama. I'm too old to care about that.
No, an immature drama would have people slinging feces. This is a highly mature drama where the arguments are dry, generic and adhere to a strict code of values. No fingers were pointed, and the offended party is taking the high road by resigning. It's not often that people behave in a mature fashion, so I fully understand you did not recognise it for what it is.
> This is a highly mature drama where the arguments are dry, generic and adhere to a strict code of values. No fingers were pointed, and the offended party is taking the high road by resigning.
As an outsider, I see Twitter-esque levels of grandstanding in the linked "post"—hardly mature. Based on observing the Rust community from afar over the last few years, this unfortunately is not something that is surprising.
(FWIW, I agree with all the comments pointing out that zero-context outsiders should not expect to be brought up to speed from a pull request message alone—anyone arguing the opposite is guilty of the same sort of mindset that I'm chiding here. If this announcement(!) weren't deliberately crafted to give the effect it does, supporters of the resigners might actually have a point. The fact that something that should be as boring as a pull request—no matter how controversial the subject—is being discussed in terms of "high roads" taken by any side, however, really throws that argument into the mud.)
Go hole up in a cabin in the woods and decompress by hacking on personal stuff or something and stay away from social media. For some, it has poisoned everything to the point that it has given rise to a new breed of vague status updates that pervade even project infrastructure.
Re: Rust Moderation Team Resigns
#383Earlier quoted context omitted.
...I think many people would disagree with you about Linux. And perhaps GCC as well.
Yeah it's comical because Linux has so obviously driven a lot of people away from kernel development. Tech is male-skewed, and OSS more so, but Linux kernel dev is even then still at the far end of the gender disparity spectrum.
sex - sure, but gender? we got plenty of females in OSS!
Re: Rust Moderation Team Resigns
#384Earlier quoted context omitted.
Of course it is. What if a contributor is harassing another team member? What if he/she is being openly racist/sexist/etc.?
In my eyes someone is allowed to be as hateful as they want as long as they contribute good code.
Re: Rust Moderation Team Resigns
#385Earlier quoted context omitted.
Linux with Linus, who famously had to change his abusive tone? GCC with Richard Stallman, accused of various kinds of sexual misconduct? Python, which felt it necessary to impose a CoC eventually? Your counter examples are questionable at best.
If “accused” is the worst you could come up with, maybe you shouldn’t spread random accusations so wildly. Anyway, regarding Richard Stallman and those accusations of “various kinds of sexual misconduct”: https://sterling-archermedes.github.io/
The article you shared also fails to defend many of the accusations against Stallman and completely ignores them, for example the "Emacs virgin girl" situation.
Re: Rust Moderation Team Resigns
#386Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Linux has changed the world -- in a very substantial way and much for the better -- even though Linus flew off the handle at people for years. That doesn't mean he is completely beyond criticism, but it does indicate to me that we need to put a significant check in place against these "feelings committees." Their sensibilities are becoming ever more delicate. I think that's a pretty bad example, considering Linus t…
There's a difference between how very bold Linus was with his insults to today's "cocs" which makes people walk on eggshells being too afraid to say or insinuate something that may be perceived as "incorrect".
In the olden days of forums we had none of this nonsense. The community would agree a user was toxic and the mods would kick. It seemed like there were better controls, or that this was a better design.
Maybe because GitHub is so centralized, and every action so public it feels like there is some kind of global audience, so there are all these wasteful airs and graces? Idk
Re: Rust Moderation Team Resigns
#387Is there any tech consequence to this immature drama? I'm confused as to whether I should care or not. If there are consequences on the tech, people need to spell that out. Right now this all seems like some middle-school playground emotional drama. I'm too old to care about that.
No, an immature drama would have people slinging feces. This is a highly mature drama where the arguments are dry, generic and adhere to a strict code of values. No fingers were pointed, and the offended party is taking the high road by resigning. It's not often that people behave in a mature fashion, so I fully understand you did not recognise it for what it is.
This appears to be a big win for the rust community.
Re: Rust Moderation Team Resigns
#388Some months ago somebody else was complaining about the fact that most of the rust core team was being hired by big corps (mostly Amazon iirc). In my opinion these people resigning will have the effect of just making core team's life (read: Amazon's and other big corps' life) easier in doing whatever they want.
Re: Rust Moderation Team Resigns
#389Earlier quoted context omitted.
Public shaming by respected community members is probably somewhat effective. However, they chose not to do that here. Without knowing more, I have to trust their judgment. But I recognize that it’s unsatisfying.
This has a much worse effect though. Instead of damaging a single member they are now damaging the whole core team by leaving it unspecific, and they are damaging Rust as well.
Re: Rust Moderation Team Resigns
#390I don't believe proper free software projects require significant moderation of behavior between individuals. If someone says something that rises to the level of a crime, report it to your local authorities. Otherwise, if a person is generally toxic enough, they will be worked around. Note that expelling a person from a project for being a jerk in one or more instances may do more harm than good. What is the value o…