Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Rust Moderation Team Resigns

github.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

351–360 of 912 posts

Re: Rust Moderation Team Resigns

#351

Post by dogleash »

torstenvl wrote: post #310
mumblemumble wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Protecting people's privacy is a fundamental principle of justice, too. It's extremely common for court records in cases regarding people's conduct to be sealed. Forcing people to air all their dirty laundry in public, as the Puritans did, is not just, and tends to severely limit already-marginalized people's access to justice.

I have been a lawyer for over a decade. In exactly one case that I've ever litigated or supervised has any of the evidence been placed under seal. What jurisdiction do you practice in, that you're seeing this so commonly?

Using an innocuous sounding request for more information as a sly zinger? This guy lawyers.

Re: Rust Moderation Team Resigns

#352

Post by jacquesm »

mjburgess wrote: post #210
tinco wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a power grab, because they just relinquished power, even going to the point of leaving instructions for the next group of people that would take over. Just this flaw in your logic probably landed you your first downvotes. Second, the CoC is not arbitrary, there's a link to it merged into the repository which means the core team (or at least a majority of it) agreed to it. Their resigning is just a signal tha…

Sure, in round one, they've resigned. Games are played over multiple rounds. We're yet to see how it plays out. Though I don't really expect those individuals to comeback, this may well just be a move to subsume the projects "technical goals" (ie., those of the core team) under the "ethical goals" of the moderation team. As a technical project, to me, this isnt that sensible. > leadership to be accountable means that…

> Games are played over multiple rounds.

That may be so, but these people are no longer playing the game.

Re: Rust Moderation Team Resigns

#353

Post by dapids »

jimbob45 wrote: post #181
wtf_is_up wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would hold off until the Core Team is disbanded.

What a silly statement. Rust is, for many reasons, what you should be writing your future projects in. It has many forward-thinking features that represent where the field of SWE is heading. Letting political disagreements dictate what tech you choose is absolutely the silliest thing you can do (except Oracle, which can affect your bottom line). Use the best tool for the job and ignore the noise.

yea? And I have some swampland in Florida to sell, you buying?

Re: Rust Moderation Team Resigns

#356

Post by rndgermandude »

capableweb wrote: post #108
2fast4you wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but you can't resign and not have it be a public thing. They said as little as they could

I'm pretty sure you can resign with a lot less "drama", for the lack of a better word. Simply make the PR remove people from the moderators list and say "We don't want to be moderators anymore", but instead they give clues to what could have happen for them to take this action. I guess you can say that their action was "semi-public". It wasn't trying to be completely private, and neither completely public, but somewh…

>I'm pretty sure you can resign with a lot less "drama"

I am not sure you can, unless you play the politician bit and lie about "wanting to spend more time with family" or "health reasons".

If they resigned without any statement, people would have noticed as well, and speculation and gossiping would be still rampant, if not more rampant, because it's not every day that the entire Rust moderation team resigns.

They are between a rock and a hard place, if their objective really was to avoid public drama. Give too little detail and you're entirely at the mercy of speculation and maybe whatever the opposing party puts out (without other people even knowing who that opposing party is). Give too much information and you may irrevocably hurt people (like victims, or even the accused when a mob comes for them) or the community as a whole.

Re: Rust Moderation Team Resigns

#357

Post by pc86 »

radlad wrote: post #267
throwaway894345 wrote: post #235

> You'll never get everyone to settle on the same moral values so it's inevitable that you'll get someone who is unapologetic about some value they hold. I'm less familiar with Rust community moderation, but as an example of what not to do, I would offer up the Go maintainers' strategy of advertising unrelated, partisan, ideological content on their web pages and then shutting down any kind of critical conversation a…

It's sad that the Equal Justice Initiative[0] (linked by the Go homepage) is considered partisan. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal_Justice_Initiative

I mean they certainly have a partisan stance re: prisons and incarceration. Not to say whether it's a good stance or not, but it's certainly partisan. Partisan doesn't mean "I disagree with this."

But whatever it is and whatever your opinion of it, it's hard to make a cogent argument that it belongs as a banner on the front page of a programming language website.

Re: Rust Moderation Team Resigns

#358

Post by JohnBooty »

dogleash wrote: post #321
JohnBooty wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are dragging more into the public sphere than necessary That's a bold claim. For you to accurately make that claim, you'd need to know every other piece of the story that lead to this point and lead them to feel that this public statement was their only remaining choice.

I was replying to someone who said the content of the resignation was a refusal to drag drama into the public. I did not say dragging it into public was a bad tactic for accomplishing their goals. >you'd need to know every other piece of the story that lead to this point and lead them to feel that this public statement was their only remaining choice. No I wouldn't. I will stand by my claim that they said more than n…

"I don't know the story, nor any of the events leading up to this point, but I am convinced that one side is handling it wrong!"

Re: Rust Moderation Team Resigns

#359

Post by tharne »

poszlem wrote: post #275
lern_too_spel wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What a strange way of looking at it. At any functioning company, toxic employees get fired because the cost of them pushing out other employees is usually higher than the cost of firing them. Open source projects do not hire and fire people but do have the ability to censure toxic contributors. I know nothing about this particular case, but the general idea of moderating contributors to a project is not wacky as you…

Except in those situations you never weight the amount of people you lose by adding a significant level of "cultural oversight" to a project. I actively avoid projects that spend a lot of time talking about "inclusivity" because to me it's a symptom of a (ironically) toxic environment full of people looking for drama (I am an ethnic and sexual minority myself in case someone wants to throw privilege in my face). The…

> I actively avoid projects that spend a lot of time talking about "inclusivity" because to me it's a symptom of a (ironically) toxic environment full of people looking for drama

100%. I do the exact same thing, for the exact same reasons.

If you see a code of conduct that reads like a political manifesto, that's a red flag, regardless of the particulars of the politics expressed.

Re: Rust Moderation Team Resigns

#360

Post by diegocg »

dolni wrote: post #228

I don't believe proper free software projects require significant moderation of behavior between individuals. If someone says something that rises to the level of a crime, report it to your local authorities. Otherwise, if a person is generally toxic enough, they will be worked around. Note that expelling a person from a project for being a jerk in one or more instances may do more harm than good. What is the value o…

Back in the day, Linux (and other FOSS projects) where for geeks only. You invested your free time on it because you liked it. People could be aggressive against you, you would leave and nobody gave a shit.

Modern FOSS projects such as Linux or Rust are more than something for geeks. Lot of people gets paid to work on it. For many, being an expert in an important project is a career, not just a job. People are "forced" to spend a lot of time working with the community. And modern open source projects just have far more people than they used to. I guess that the standards have been raised.

That said, I think you are completely right on this point:

> some snowflakes like to believe that everyone contributes equally

This is absolutely right. The people who are being accused of being nasty are the _core_ team. Rust just can not exist without them. Unfortunately, they seem to be abusing their power.

Post reply on HN