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The Stroad

strongtowns.org

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Re: The Stroad

#231

Post by treis »

xmprt wrote: post #119
treis wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Walkable places are inherently more expensive because they lack economy of scale. It's why Dunkin Donuts can sell a dozen for $10 but it costs ~$20 for half a dozen at my local walkable place. Granted, there is a quality of ingredients difference but not 4x the cost.

You have it completely backwards. Suburbs aren't scalable. That's why back in the 50s-70s when they were first built, they were amazing, but today, they are rife with traffic problems, noise pollution, and crumbling infrastructure.

The percentage of the population living in the suburbs is growing, not shrinking.

Re: The Stroad

#232

Post by TrispusAttucks »

mcv wrote: post #206
TrispusAttucks wrote: post #191

I hate driving to the city because I loathe these stroads but I don't see a way out. The ship has sailed, the roads are built. I don't think there is enough money to build ourselves out of this. This is the problem I see with most infrastructure in US. We overshot so much that the burden of maintenance is too great. It's easier to build once than maintain indefinitely.

The ship hasn't sailed. Yes, the roads are built, but they can be changed. New roads are constructed every day, and they could be better. And better roads will eventually save money, because of less accidents and more efficient land use. And they will bring in more money because they attract and enable more businesses and increase the value of land. It's still a good investment to look for improvement.

I have great respect for your optimism.

Re: The Stroad

#233

Post by bsanr2 »

rubidium wrote: post #167
kblev wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great channel, have been following it for some time, a few takeaways from there: - It's the cars that make the cities undesirable - I was shocked how the historical center of London, ON was demolished to the ground and replaced with shacks - Kids should be able to walk to school alone in safety - I live in Europe and I was baffled to learn that multi-purpose developments are disallowed in most of North America. This…

Move to an older part of an urban city or small town and your experience is totally doable in the states. Just don’t move to a suburb with million dollar McMansions.

Right, move to a city center with million-dollar studio apartments instead.

Re: The Stroad

#234

Post by drivers99 »

burlesona wrote: post #71
drivers99 wrote: post #8

Cool seeing strongtowns here. Not Just Bikes is a YouTube channel that has helped popularize them recently, and has a lot of other videos about what makes living in the Netherlands so great (i.e. it’s not just bikes, although that’s a big part of it). Here’s Not Just Bikes’ video about Stroads: https://youtu.be/ORzNZUeUHAM

The popularization is more likely the other way around: Strong Towns has been around 12 years, has a huge audience, and is a sponsor and promoter of Not Just Bikes. I agree it’s an exceptional YouTube channel though. :)

On YouTube, Strong Towns has 9.7K subscribers and Not Just Bikes has 425K. NJB’s video about stroads has 1.3M views while Strong Towns’ videos about stroads have 62K and 63K and are 3 and 8 years old. I’ve only seen people talk about stroads online when NJB made his videos.

Here’s their newer stroad video though, which is pretty good: https://youtu.be/OZ1HhLq-Huo

Re: The Stroad

#235

Post by treis »

hannasanarion wrote: post #95
treis wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But they choose not to. US population is roughly 1/2 suburban, 1/4 rural, and 1/4 urban. Which backs up my point.

How much of that is "choice"? People can only live in places that exist, and places that exist must be constructed in compliance with certain government standards, and the government standards for the US for the last fifty years have been all cars, all the time. In most places, it is illegal to build a house without a garage, or a bar without a parking space for every stool. The law mandates that everyone drive every…

None of this is true. You can easily find dense walkable places to live. You will just pay more money for a much smaller house. Your living expenses will be higher. And you'll have to rely on public transportation which is a pain in the ass when you have small kids.

It's easy to see why people choose the suburbs.

Re: The Stroad

#236

Post by jamincan »

mcv wrote: post #152
bee_rider wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some cars have a blind spot on their right. Also, the convention is passing on the left, so people are generally less aware of things going on on their right. Of course bad drivers are almost by definition unpredictable, but if some bad driver is going to absent mindedly merge into you, they will probably do it while you are on their right. In particular, distracted people whose texting has been interrupted by their…

In many countries, it's a hard rule that you need to pass on the left. Passing on the right is only allowed when it's a lane going in a different direction (like an exit), or traffic is moving very slowly (you don't want people changing lanes in a traffic jam to avoid passing on the right).

While "keep right except to pass" is technically the law here in Ontario, the de facto standard is that the middle lane is the cruising lane, the left is the passing lane, and the right is basically a second merging lane. This means that it is not uncommon to have stop-and-go traffic in the left two lanes while the right lane is still moving and mostly wide open. Drivers will frequently move right into the middle lane from the ramp even with no traffic in the right lane and not having sped up to the highway speed. It's an complete waste of resources.

Re: The Stroad

#237

Post by joshlemer »

closeparen wrote: post #61
ehnto wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mixed use medium density is my urban nirvana. Anywhere I have been with it just makes so much sense for daily life at person scale. Cars tricked us into thinking life can be comfortable spread across large distances and I think we are suffering in various ways for it. I am reminded of that cartoon where aliens arive on earth, and assume that cars are the dominant species, since so much of our world has been dedicated…

Suburbanites hate cars too, and that’s why they’ll never let you have mixed use. It would perhaps eliminate the snarl in commercial areas, but it would also bring some portion of that traffic into what are now quiet residential sanctuaries.

Exactly. This video makes that point so crystal clear: https://youtu.be/dqQw05Mr63E

Car-dependent suburbia is about imposing your car on everyone else while not allowing anyone else to impose their cars on you. It is inherently selfish city design.

Re: The Stroad

#238

Post by treis »

Baeocystin wrote: post #136
quantumwannabe wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those exist in some areas of the country. Here's an example: https://www.google.com/maps/@33.5823608,-111.9504203,3a,75y,...

Lots of them in San Diego, too. Here's an example in Clairemont, which is an early post-war suburb. Note that the homes pictured are also 'missing middle' construction. https://www.google.com/maps/@32.8276267,-117.2033566,3a,75y,... https://missingmiddlehousing.com/

That's clearly a stroad. 1,000 feet away from where you linked to are shops and restaurants.

Re: The Stroad

#239

Post by bsanr2 »

prawn wrote: post #68
chestervonwinch wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here in Austin Texas, we have lovely signs to remind you of your imminent crash! http://austintexas.gov/sites/default/files/files/Sign%201.JP...

Our equivalent in Australia is a Black Spot: https://www.snowyvalleys.nsw.gov.au/News-Media/Brungle-Road-...

Why not Red or White Spot?

Re: The Stroad

#240

Post by xorfish »

LeChuck wrote: post #225
bluGill wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Induced demand is nonsense. If people leave the bus to drive it indicates your bus system is providing bad service. If more people drive it indicates that your city isn't filling its purpose as being a place where there are a lot of things to do. Cities need to figure out how to get ahead of induced demand not how use it as an excuse to be a worse city.. sure, this is a hard problem, with many options that make somet…

I agree with you. I think people are downvoting you because they misunderstand your first sentence. Using the concept of induced demand to justify building fewer roads is bullshit, if you don't figure out why there's so much pent up demand to begin with. The way forward should be making all the alternatives more attractive, so that the demand for cars disappears.

To avoid induced demand, you need to make other modes of transport more attractive than driving.

So if there are two routes from A to B and one is longer, then the shorter route should be reserved for the modes of transports that have a higher capacity. (That usually means banning cars)

Another really good option is to have dedicated bus lanes so buses don't get stuck in traffic.

As a car driver you massively benefit if other people take the bus or bikes instead of their car. Plus you and especially the ones who are to old, young, poor, disabled to drive a car have good options of getting around.

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