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The Stroad

strongtowns.org

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Re: The Stroad

#161

Post by mcv »

cozzyd wrote: post #85
adgjlsfhk1 wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

there's a very simple solution then. build more walkable places.

If only it were so simple. Building walkable places is illegal almost everywhere in the US due to onerous parking minimums, regulations about street design and restrictive zoning. It's still possible to build walkable places with highrises, but low-rise walkable areas like https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9181247,-87.6517955,3a,60y,7... are almost lost art in the US. There are entire major metro areas in the US with n…

Exactly. And it's those policies that need to change. But because this is such a lost art, and because Americans have been raised to believe in the car-centric suburban dream, most people don't even know that this is an option. It's a policy issue, but also an awareness issue.

Re: The Stroad

#162

Post by frereubu »

throw0101a wrote: post #15

Another article that may be useful: > Americans do not understand the difference between a road and a street. [...] > The value of a road is in the speed and efficiency that it provides for movement between places. Anything that is done that reduces the speed and efficiency of a road devalues that road. If we want to maximize the value of a road, we eliminate anything that reduces the speed and efficiency of travel.…

The centres of most UK towns and cities are now limited to 20mph. Although in practice that means that people drive around 25mph - i.e. just low enough not to be caught for speeding - it does make the streets less threatening for both pedestrians and bikes. The thing that would make it better for cyclists is to line up the speed limit of e-bikes (currently set at a max of 15mph) and the speed limit. Currently the 15mph / 20mph disjunction means that some idiots still try to squeeze their cars past relatively fast-moving e-bikes (which then often catch up with the car at the next set of lights...), whereas if those bikes could go at 20pmh or the speed limit was 15mph I don't think they'd bother.

Edit: Although generally once you get out of the very centre there are arterial "stroads" which have 30mph limits, but side-streets are usually still 20mph.

Re: The Stroad

#163

Post by refurb »

Karrot_Kream wrote: post #104
refurb wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The truth is there isn't that much demand for high density housing and walkable neighborhoods. They are mostly attractive to young childless adults. Some of them stick around once they have kids, but it's rare and usually reserved for the well-off who can afford private schools and family-sized homes. In SF you've got the parents who are happy to put their kids and groceries on the back of their bike, but most look t…

If you have the average 2 children with the average ~ 3 years between children, then these concerns are only relevant for roughly 21 years of life. If the average person lives to 80 and becomes an adult at 18, then you have 62 years as an adult. Only about a third of that time is spent caring for your children. That's still 40 years remaining. None of that has to happen on a place with large lot sizes and good school…

Clearly children are a driver for a suburban lifestyle but it's not the only driver. Plenty of kid-less people choose to live in the suburbs.

Re: The Stroad

#164

Post by bo0tzz »

anitil wrote: post #42
drivers99 wrote: post #8

Cool seeing strongtowns here. Not Just Bikes is a YouTube channel that has helped popularize them recently, and has a lot of other videos about what makes living in the Netherlands so great (i.e. it’s not just bikes, although that’s a big part of it). Here’s Not Just Bikes’ video about Stroads: https://youtu.be/ORzNZUeUHAM

It really is a nice channel. I can't find the exact video right now but I remember one where he compared a horrid stroad with a lovely Dutch street. The Dutch version contained two single lane streets, bike lanes, a lightrail line and lovely shade from all the trees. And ironically the second had a higher carrying capacity because single-occupant vehicles are just terrible at moving people.

> I can't find the exact video right now

I think that's probably because it was a Patreon exclusive ;) However, his recent video includes a similar comparison: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ds-v2-qyCc8

Re: The Stroad

#165

Post by GordonS »

frereubu wrote: post #162
throw0101a wrote: post #15

Another article that may be useful: > Americans do not understand the difference between a road and a street. [...] > The value of a road is in the speed and efficiency that it provides for movement between places. Anything that is done that reduces the speed and efficiency of a road devalues that road. If we want to maximize the value of a road, we eliminate anything that reduces the speed and efficiency of travel.…

The centres of most UK towns and cities are now limited to 20mph. Although in practice that means that people drive around 25mph - i.e. just low enough not to be caught for speeding - it does make the streets less threatening for both pedestrians and bikes. The thing that would make it better for cyclists is to line up the speed limit of e-bikes (currently set at a max of 15mph) and the speed limit. Currently the 15m…

> Currently the 15mph / 20mph disjunction means that some idiots still try to squeeze their cars past relatively fast-moving e-bikes (which then often catch up with the car at the next set of lights...)

To be fair, this behaviour isn't one-sided. Often bicycles, e-bikes and motorcycles squeeze through small gaps between cars moving slow'ish in packed traffic.

Now, of course car drivers should remain vigilant and continually check their mirrors, but nobody is infallible, and I'm sure there are plenty of drivers that do not take proper care.

Re: The Stroad

#166

Post by ljm »

mcv wrote: post #152
bee_rider wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some cars have a blind spot on their right. Also, the convention is passing on the left, so people are generally less aware of things going on on their right. Of course bad drivers are almost by definition unpredictable, but if some bad driver is going to absent mindedly merge into you, they will probably do it while you are on their right. In particular, distracted people whose texting has been interrupted by their…

In many countries, it's a hard rule that you need to pass on the left. Passing on the right is only allowed when it's a lane going in a different direction (like an exit), or traffic is moving very slowly (you don't want people changing lanes in a traffic jam to avoid passing on the right).

Going onto the IdiotsInCars subreddit, it's kind of shocking how commonplace it is for people to undertake other road users by speeding past in the slow lane. It's already more difficult to merge back into a slower lane because you have a much bigger blind-spot (and have to twist your neck a lot more to get a good look), so it doesn't make it any easier if you have to expect that people will be speeding to undertake you.

Re: The Stroad

#167

Post by rubidium »

kblev wrote: post #77
gibolt wrote: post #57

For anyone interested in this topic, I highly recommend this channel's series. https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLJp5q-R0lZ0_FCUbeVWK6OGLN... 'Not Just Bikes' has a ton of other great videos on the channel about what infrastructure makes a good city and what makes one hostile to residents.

Great channel, have been following it for some time, a few takeaways from there: - It's the cars that make the cities undesirable - I was shocked how the historical center of London, ON was demolished to the ground and replaced with shacks - Kids should be able to walk to school alone in safety - I live in Europe and I was baffled to learn that multi-purpose developments are disallowed in most of North America. This…

Move to an older part of an urban city or small town and your experience is totally doable in the states. Just don’t move to a suburb with million dollar McMansions.

Re: The Stroad

#168

Post by rubidium »

x3iv130f wrote: post #138
throwaway894345 wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I love how I can just jump on a bike here and be at a large supermarket in 5 minutes If you live in a large US city, this can still be very manageable. There are two large grocery stores and a small one as well as a Target and a metro line within a 5 minute walk of my house. Apart from the metro line, we didn't really prioritize the grocery stores, etc when looking for a house. That said, there are many downsides t…

Those places tend to be unafordable longterm for anyone making even twice the median salary.

Not in the Midwest.

Re: The Stroad

#169

Post by dagw »

rubidium wrote: post #168
x3iv130f wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those places tend to be unafordable longterm for anyone making even twice the median salary.

Not in the Midwest.

What are some nice, livable and affordable cities you can recommend in the Midwest where you don't need a car?

Re: The Stroad

#170

Post by laputan_machine »

GordonS wrote: post #165
frereubu wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The centres of most UK towns and cities are now limited to 20mph. Although in practice that means that people drive around 25mph - i.e. just low enough not to be caught for speeding - it does make the streets less threatening for both pedestrians and bikes. The thing that would make it better for cyclists is to line up the speed limit of e-bikes (currently set at a max of 15mph) and the speed limit. Currently the 15m…

> Currently the 15mph / 20mph disjunction means that some idiots still try to squeeze their cars past relatively fast-moving e-bikes (which then often catch up with the car at the next set of lights...) To be fair, this behaviour isn't one-sided. Often bicycles, e-bikes and motorcycles squeeze through small gaps between cars moving slow'ish in packed traffic. Now, of course car drivers should remain vigilant and cont…

> To be fair, this behaviour isn't one-sided. Often bicycles, e-bikes and motorcycles squeeze through small gaps between cars moving slow'ish in packed traffic.

The speed is the issue. A collision at low speeds is much less likely to be fatal [0]. Being closely overtaken by a car when you're going at 20-25mph on a bicycle is 1) a scary experience and 2) unnecessarily dangerous for the cyclist (and not at all for the driver).

[0] https://nacto.org/docs/usdg/relationship_between_speed_risk_...

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