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Bring Back Our Knobs: Analog vs. Digital (2009)

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Re: Bring Back Our Knobs: Analog vs. Digital (2009)

#201

Post by LorenPechtel »

wrycoder wrote: post #133
ineedasername wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recently bought a new car. The old one had HVAC as you described. I don't use the new one any differently though. When it's really cold, I turn the heat all the way up until I'm comfortable. Then I turn it down and keep it there. This is exactly what I did in my old car too. In the new one I just don't use the "auto" feature, and haven't even tried because my established behavior still applies. Then only difference…

Absolutely. And I can set a knob without looking directly at it. I don’t have to punch a button 42 times or have an autoincrement function overshoot. Once I’m near the correct temp, I just move the knob one click at a time. For the seat heater, I reach down between the seats, feel for the switch, and push it. Never take my eyes off the road. I don’t want to be doing these things with touch screens, especially at nigh…

Yup. The systems you use while driving should be able to be operated by touch. Congress should mandate that.

Re: Bring Back Our Knobs: Analog vs. Digital (2009)

#202

Post by rpmisms »

hoppla wrote: post #184
rpmisms wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sold my manual for a Tesla. I drive my wife's manual Mazda when I want to enjoy the driving experience. Tesla does have good digital inputs, but very little about the car is analog, so I think I'm being consistent.

My next car might be a mazda because of this: https://www.motorauthority.com/news/1121372_why-mazda-is-pur... TLDR; They are removing touchscreens and design the cars to be driven without having to take your eyes off the road

Yes. Mazda has their head on straight re: UX and smart design. Very very enjoyable cars to drive, as well. Their motto is "zoom-zoom", which they embody well.

Re: Bring Back Our Knobs: Analog vs. Digital (2009)

#203

Post by magicalhippo »

WastingMyTime89 wrote: post #117
NikolaNovak wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know this makes me a clueless annoying boring techie nerd :), but I still cannot properly fathom how this is a minority opinion. NOBODY in my non-techie group of friends or family cares. Not.even.remotely. I watch them struggle with their touch screens, I even listen to them rant, but when asked about it afterwards, it's fine. Just fine. Sexy. Sleek. Desirable. Why do I have to go and ruin everything? Honestly, eve…

> Whereas with Auto, you literally never know what you're going to get. It's not on conscious level - everybody thinks their Auto A/C it's awesome. Until you watch their actual sub-conscious behaviour on a drive. Honest question: do you really see people touch the level of their ac during a drive? Auto is actual temperature control. The system tries to stay at the set temperature. It’s a lot more comfortable that hav…

> Honest question: do you really see people touch the level of their ac during a drive?

My GF has the climate control in the car set to the max (28C) and regulates the temperature by turning it on or off.

Part of the reason she hates the auto setting is that if it's not blowing hotter air over her, she feels cold. And she hates feeling cold.

However leave the climate control on a higher setting and the car ends up uncomfortably hot.

For her, the ideal climate control would be one which regulated fan speed rather than air exhaust temperature.

That said, in our BMW i3 the temperature target is a physical knob, easily controlled while driving. So there's that.

Re: Bring Back Our Knobs: Analog vs. Digital (2009)

#204

Post by [deleted] »

albert_e wrote: post #152

My dream -- Physical knobs and buttons (preferably with universal indicators of current state) for mic mute/unmute, camera on/off, volume. Laptops can have either built in or a usb/wireless accessory. Mobiles also need physical buttons if not knobs. Edit to add: A raspberry pi zero or less and commodity buttons / dials in a well designed case should easily work for this. I know some streamdeck projects exist but not…

[deleted]

Re: Bring Back Our Knobs: Analog vs. Digital (2009)

#205

Post by tonymet »

ziml77 wrote: post #198
tonymet wrote: post #125

Responsiveness has many facets. tactile feedback (like the solid click of a rocker ), visual distinction , feedback latency (how many milliseconds between input and taking action), tactile distinction (can you distinguish the control without looking at it), audible distinction . soft buttons , soft logic controllers and touch UIs fail at all of the above the result is a sluggish, frustrating and counterintuitive expe…

Have you tried tapping the button instead of holding it? You can usually change the values a lot faster that way. But I'm with you on it being stupid. I'm fine with the temperature control being digital (I've had issues with multiple non-digital ovens having too much inaccuracy in their temperature control), but there should be a knob to change the temperature.

you’re right that this sometimes works , but on this control panel the button doesn’t respond

Re: Bring Back Our Knobs: Analog vs. Digital (2009)

#206

Post by pepoluan »

wruza wrote: post #156
BeefWellington wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there's limits to these kinds of effects if it's actually a thing you interact with on what I'll call (for lack of a better term coming to mind) a blue collar basis. My reasoning (story time): I got hired to fix up a piece of custom-built software that was essentially the core business function for a series of medical clinics. They'd spent quite a bit of money to replace an older DOS system with a fancy new .…

the .net app to replace it didn't seem to even know what tabindex was for. Literally you couldn't tab around any screen in the app in any kind of sensible workflow way. Software development is a smart job, but looking at some software makes you think who created it and what was in their mind. My pet peeve is frontend developers’ attitude to their enterprise users. “Okay, there is a table, so a user can click here on…

That sounds more like a failure of UX engineering/design.

That's why rapid iterations are better when developing a user-facing interface.

Re: Bring Back Our Knobs: Analog vs. Digital (2009)

#207

Post by pepoluan »

MerelyMortal wrote: post #159
Koshkin wrote: post #116

A touch glass cockpit is perfect in a spaceship, good in an airplane or a boat, and an abomination in a car.

I disagree overall (you're definitely right about it being an abomination in cars though). Touchscreens are bad when they move (spaceship launch, air turbulance, waves, uneven road). There's also a direct relationship with how bad touchscreens are, with how often you need to 'keep your eyes on the road'. Space, you don't really have to look out the window, planes you don't really need to look if you're IFR in IMC, bo…

For spaceships, I think it's a given that launch should be automated; too many things happening rapidly to be handled by human beings. In space, though, actions are more forgiving to a certain degree, timing are usually more relaxed.

Re: Bring Back Our Knobs: Analog vs. Digital (2009)

#208

Post by rsj_hn »

hoppla wrote: post #184
rpmisms wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sold my manual for a Tesla. I drive my wife's manual Mazda when I want to enjoy the driving experience. Tesla does have good digital inputs, but very little about the car is analog, so I think I'm being consistent.

My next car might be a mazda because of this: https://www.motorauthority.com/news/1121372_why-mazda-is-pur... TLDR; They are removing touchscreens and design the cars to be driven without having to take your eyes off the road

That's pretty cool! I've heard a lot of good things about Mazda as well, including improving build quality and reliability.

Re: Bring Back Our Knobs: Analog vs. Digital (2009)

#209

Post by perryizgr8 »

webwielder2 wrote: post #4
rp1 wrote: post #2

I too want knobs, but this line exemplifies why they're not coming back: > I wonder if Apple iPhone will meet with the same success, as its touchscreen offers no tactile feedback. Will people get tired of having to look down every time they dial a number?

Datedness of that speculation aside, was dialing numbers without looking at the keypad something people did a lot? Busy Wall Street types maybe?

My friend in college broke his phone's screen. But he kept using it for about a year without problems. He had every phone number memorised and could type messages without needing to look at the keyboard or the screen. You would be talking to him face to face and he could be typing out a message with his phone in his hand, inside his pocket.

Re: Bring Back Our Knobs: Analog vs. Digital (2009)

#210

Post by teleforce »

I watched car reviews a lot to the point that it's probably not healthy for a person. Interestingly, most of professional car reviewers prefer physical knobs over digital or haptic. One of the modern cars that I really admire in term of innovations and utilities is the new Hyundai Santa Cruz. For better or worse, Hyundai is bringing back knobs for volume and climate control before it has even reach full year in US soil perhaps due to the many complaints they have received over the several months since it's launched [1].

But come on, the most intuitive control interface is not digital, haptic or analog, they all interfere badly while you're driving. The most intuitive with the least interference is your voices. Somehow all of the recent cars being reviewed has hit-and-miss for their voice recognition accuracy. If we as human race cannot even get the basic voice recognition right, how can we expect level 5 fully autonomous driving that being touted to arrive sooner rather than later?

[1]https://youtu.be/LeIjjyaE7j4

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