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Ask HN: Why does cryptocurrency subjects on HN lack curious conversations?

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Re: Ask HN: Why does cryptocurrency subjects on HN lack curious conversations?

#151
post #89

Cryptocurrencies are a problem. From the environmental disaster they cause (and social problems caused by higher electricity prices due to increased demand), to tax evasion, illegal porn, or the fact that an important share of an entire generation became addicted to gambling under the guise of "technology". The real world has problems, and crypto currencies have made some of them possible. Far from making the world a…

> tax evasion, illegal porn, or the fact that an important share of an entire generation became addicted to gambling under the guise of "technology"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Horsemen_of_the_Infocalyp...

Re: Ask HN: Why does cryptocurrency subjects on HN lack curious conversations?

#152
I don't see anything interesting to be discussed about cryptos.

The initial promise of blockchain seems to have been side-lined: independent governing systems, tamper-free databases, and all the good stuff that the enthusiasts used to sell the dream to everybody else.

Nowadays it just seems like a speculative market for "get rich quick" suckers to lose their money so the other 1% to 5% who are better informed can actually make a buck.

What is there to discuss regarding cryptos according to you, OP? I am not as aggressive as other HN posters in all crypto threads (in fact I almost never engage with them even) but I just don't see them being worth a discussion in general.

Re: Ask HN: Why does cryptocurrency subjects on HN lack curious conversations?

#153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't dispute that this is mostly theoretical. But I wouldn't say it's naive, because we know that when people buy into systems they follow the rules as best they can. The problem occurs when others take advantage of the system to game it with plausible deniability, within the confines of said system. That's the entire point of "the emperor has no clothes" allegory. When people buy in to a broken system, broken thi…

> I'm sure most people think to themselves "I'm sure if the papers were legitimate then that person would be in jail, there must be something else going on". When you codify the system entirely, and people buy into it, then someone submits papers recognized by the system to be authentic that prove someone is guilty of a crime, it's much more likely there will be enough pressure to take action in that case, because th…

I think of it more in terms of a highly secure and decentralized online videogame. Most people will be happy just to play the game, some people will start guilds and min/max, some people will try to cheat. When someone is found cheating, the system gets patched to prevent others from doing it. The dynamics of a game nudges people into behaving within the incentive structure of the game mechanics - even though technically they could strip naked and /dance for a month straight.

In any well designed online game (please don't use shitty ones against me), cheaters aren't able to hijack the entire system or ruin an economy. Their exploits break the game temporarily and most of the time it doesn't affect that many people. In bad cases, the state gets rolled back, the exploit patched, and the game continues. Sometimes things are just unavoidable, and everyone counts their losses.

I think blockchain has the potential to make fairer and more resilient systems, and with new incentives as well. We can use game theory to try wildly different societal structures, and quickly switch to another one if one doesn't work well.

On some level, trust always has to be present. If we make the rules trustless, enforcement becomes the bottleneck (until Robocop?), but it's still potentially better than what we have now where we simply have to trust millions of other people not to fuck with anything too much.

Re: Ask HN: Why does cryptocurrency subjects on HN lack curious conversations?

#154
Because it's not two disinterested parties, it's owners versus mockers. Owners say irrational things because they've drunk the water. It's like asking why don't believers in ressurection ever have curious conversations about the impossibility of ressurection.

Re: Ask HN: Why does cryptocurrency subjects on HN lack curious conversations?

#155
post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Out of curiosity how do you estimate this comparison: > Amazon Alexas burn more energy in a year by sitting idle in people's homes than the entire Bitcoin network does

I actually looked into it and got the quote wrong, it's not Amazon Alexas globally, it's all "always on devices" in America; including computers, gaming consoles, etc. From googling and "This Machine Greens" docu: > American always on devices: 1375 TWh per year > Cruise ships: 250 TWh per year > Bitcoin: 116 TWh per year > Online advertising: 106 TWh per year > American Alexas: 1.52 TWh per year

That is almost 630 watts per person (250 million people, 24*365 hours per year)... That seems like a lot...

As a north european techie spending power on quite a few always on things (respberry pis, a nas, a router, wifi, ps5 etc)- but also freezer, fridge, cooking - and lightning for half the year and a little extra heating, I have used around 2500 kWh year to date, which is roughly 320 watts in total (or half that stated figure for always on devices alone...)

EDIT: I remembered the american population size wrong, the right figure is 475 watts @330 Mln people, but my point stands..

Re: Ask HN: Why does cryptocurrency subjects on HN lack curious conversations?

#156
post #4

I'm going to attempt an answer, but as with all things this is only my perspective and I obviously don't speak for all HN readers. HN is largely for founders who want to build things. That's certainly how it started, and there's still traces of that vibe around in the Show HN and startup-y threads. There's a lot more going on here now, like more code topics, AI, electric vehicles, environmental things, a little futur…

> I can't see how you can build an anonymous system for transferring wealth around that requires significant bandwidth and CPU and not screw the planet by providing a service for drug dealers and terrorists.

I think you can accept that with any new technology there will always be bad actors using it, so this argument makes no sense to me.

There are also cryptocurrencies out there that are more efficient than others and solve the environmental issue, I just hope that you're not conflating Bitcoin, Ethereum with all cryptocurrencies.

Re: Ask HN: Why does cryptocurrency subjects on HN lack curious conversations?

#157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually looked into it and got the quote wrong, it's not Amazon Alexas globally, it's all "always on devices" in America; including computers, gaming consoles, etc. From googling and "This Machine Greens" docu: > American always on devices: 1375 TWh per year > Cruise ships: 250 TWh per year > Bitcoin: 116 TWh per year > Online advertising: 106 TWh per year > American Alexas: 1.52 TWh per year

That is almost 630 watts per person (250 million people, 24*365 hours per year)... That seems like a lot... As a north european techie spending power on quite a few always on things (respberry pis, a nas, a router, wifi, ps5 etc)- but also freezer, fridge, cooking - and lightning for half the year and a little extra heating, I have used around 2500 kWh year to date, which is roughly 320 watts in total (or half that s…

I would say less technically savvy people probably use more electricity, not less. And you're assuming that you're the average American consumer. There are probably old toasters and electrical heaters that contribute significantly to that figure. In any case, the conservative estimate is still several times that of Bitcoin's usage.

I'd also say cruise ships are more egregious, which no one seems to care about despite them definitely not using clean energy or being remotely useful, using 2.5x the amount of energy as Bitcoin - or as much as Spain!

Re: Ask HN: Why does cryptocurrency subjects on HN lack curious conversations?

#158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Until you cross the borders and move all your wealth with you by memorizing 12 words.

Tell that to the the people of the ex-DDR, the North Korea and REALLY targeted individuals.. Sadly there exists no sure way to secure you belongings if the other party is sufficiently motivated to strip you of them (or your life).. You can also be killed/robbed outside of your country by intelligence officers of your country...

> the North Korea and REALLY targeted individuals

There are always edge cases, where nothing helps. Fortunately, most countries are not like North Korea and you have some freedom, often enough to use crypto.

Re: Ask HN: Why does cryptocurrency subjects on HN lack curious conversations?

#159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

uber was not perfectly legal in all jurisdictions at all times. I would guess they were operating illegally in almost every jurisdiction when they began operating there. They in fact had teams dedicated to illegal activities in specific regions. There's an article about that here by Mike Isaac who also wrote a pretty good book about Uber: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/03/technology/uber-greyball-... It seems like i…

You shouldn't just be waiting for govt to fix anything. Govt acts through the mandate of the people, so if you want it to do something you should be lobying and voting for it. Private enterprise quite legitimately alters the playing field by introducing new products, services and business models. LEGALLY. When it does so illegally, it should be stopped. That is exactly my argument, bad institutions should be disrupte…

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Re: Ask HN: Why does cryptocurrency subjects on HN lack curious conversations?

#160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alright. This happens by default if I take no actions when I deposit USDC at FTX - the USDC is redeemed for dollars and added to my dollar balance. I can head over to the FTX OTC desk to trade my dollars for other fiat currencies at competitive rates provided by their HK banking partner. So the process of withdrawing to fiat takes a few seconds.

It's funny how you are trying to ignore my words about identity confirmation and KYC. For me, while this is required, the whole point of “crypto” is nullified. And this process is not fast. And I hate to share such information.

Sorry about that. I guess I mean to say, it improves over banks in X dimension, while being no better than banks in Y dimension that you really care about. I've sort of become desensitized to this sort of thing after sending a hundred or so people my passport and TIN this year alone.
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