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Bring Back Our Knobs: Analog vs. Digital (2009)

popularmechanics.com

121–130 of 218 posts

Re: Bring Back Our Knobs: Analog vs. Digital (2009)

#121

Seriously. Without a dedicated on/off/volume knob for the soundsystem, the driving experience is diminished drastically, no matter how nice the car. And of course touch is way better than eyesight when you are supposed to be paying attention to the road. As someone else said, rough motor skills are safer and more appropriate in a car then controls needing fine motor skills.

I know this makes me a clueless annoying boring techie nerd :), but I still cannot properly fathom how this is a minority opinion. NOBODY in my non-techie group of friends or family cares. Not.even.remotely. I watch them struggle with their touch screens, I even listen to them rant, but when asked about it afterwards, it's fine. Just fine. Sexy. Sleek. Desirable. Why do I have to go and ruin everything? Honestly, eve…

It's because the layperson isn't constantly observing systems and thinking about how effective or efficient they are. Their minds just don't seem to work like that. (Perhaps there's some area of expertise they have which applies outside the realm of technology...)

While fumbling with some poorly designed UI, they don't appear to get as angry and exclaim, "This user interface sucks! My previous car had a button to turn the A/C on and off."

They just accept it. I could get philosophical (thanks for asking!), and I think that's a general problem with humanity. Too many are too accepting of just whatever comes along, and that's how we converge on terrible designs and terrible public policies and on and on.

Re: Bring Back Our Knobs: Analog vs. Digital (2009)

#122

I recently found about "Aesthetic-usability Effect" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aesthetic%E2%80%93usability_ef... People find sleek looking things more usable even when they are actually not. There are no visible left/right click buttons on modern laptop touchpads. You get a sleek looking touchpad. Tap bottom left side harder to left click, right side to right click. There are still buttons beneath, but no, to desi…

Plus having separate left/right click buttons is much more reliable. My laptop's touchpad periodically expands when I leave it out in the heat, which sticks the left of the touchpad to the chassis so that I can only right click.

Re: Bring Back Our Knobs: Analog vs. Digital (2009)

#123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know this makes me a clueless annoying boring techie nerd :), but I still cannot properly fathom how this is a minority opinion. NOBODY in my non-techie group of friends or family cares. Not.even.remotely. I watch them struggle with their touch screens, I even listen to them rant, but when asked about it afterwards, it's fine. Just fine. Sexy. Sleek. Desirable. Why do I have to go and ruin everything? Honestly, eve…

> Whereas with Auto, you literally never know what you're going to get. It's not on conscious level - everybody thinks their Auto A/C it's awesome. Until you watch their actual sub-conscious behaviour on a drive. Honest question: do you really see people touch the level of their ac during a drive? Auto is actual temperature control. The system tries to stay at the set temperature. It’s a lot more comfortable that hav…

>>Honest question: do you really see people touch the level of their ac during a drive?

Honest answer, not fudged for sake of making a point - Yes. Absolutely. I don't know if hyper-expensive luxury vehicles do better, but I can vouch that my wife has been frequently changing in our 2012 Kia Sportage, 2016 RAV4, and now 2019 Honda Odyssey. I've observed others do so frequently in Toyota Corolla, Honda Civiv, Subaru Crosstrek, VW Golf & Jetta. Like Kerning or Norman doors, or a low battery in screenshot, once you notice it you can't help notice it ever forth.

So those are my observed facts - people fiddle with their auto A/C a lot.

Why? I have my theories, but that is something I'm less confident about and none of them may be correct or sufficient (I've tried asking people, but as mentioned, most have no idea they're actually doing it and it doesn't seem to be on conscious level; which is reasonable - my own adjustment has always been "automatic" until I started paying conscious attention):

- Perhaps it's just psychological. If I'm feeling cold, I don't trust the system and I turn it up. If I'm feeling warm, I want it colder faster. If it's -10C outside, I'll turn it up to 24C even though it may not get me warmer than if I just left it at 21C. Then it gets 24C and I'm hot. This may be just a case of humans using good system badly.

- I think however, is that system ignores some of the reality. The AIR temperature may be a steady 21C. But if the air is 21C in cabin on a dark cold night when it's -10C outside when the very windshield seems to suck the warmth out of my body, I probably actually want it warmer. If it's 21C air but noon July sun is blazing on me, I probably actually want ambient temperature colder. If I start a July trip heading south and Sun is blasting on me, I need A/C cooler; then I turn North-West and sun is behind me, and all this A/C is now chilling me too much. I think it's an error to think ambient temperature is all that our body cares to be comfortable - I think what we're wearing, how we're feeling, what the radiative environment is, etc, are all factors.

- Finally, it's that unpredictability and chasing. Heavily influenced by above, sometimes you're just comfortable, but A/C changes what it's doing because what it measures and what your lived reality is don't match, so you end up chasing each other.

Maybe 2021 Mercedes S class etc don't have that problem; maybe people have changed it and you never noticed, or maybe they genuinely haven't because your systems are better or people are using it smarter or they just care less or whatever other reason; but I have personally seen very few people set Automatic HVAC to a specific temperature and never touch it again.

My 100 Croatian Lipa :)

Re: Bring Back Our Knobs: Analog vs. Digital (2009)

#125
Responsiveness has many facets. tactile feedback (like the solid click of a rocker ), visual distinction , feedback latency (how many milliseconds between input and taking action), tactile distinction (can you distinguish the control without looking at it), audible distinction .

soft buttons , soft logic controllers and touch UIs fail at all of the above

the result is a sluggish, frustrating and counterintuitive experience when engaging with the world around you .

we replaced our kitchen range with a new budget model. they replaced the analog oven settings with a keypad .

the old model could be activated in 1/2 second blindfolded by turning the knob. you could see the setting from across the room eg when heading out the door.

the new range requires 3 button presses and holding the temp control button for 45 seconds while the temp slowly seeks 5 degree increments.

what sadist designs these systems? they can’t possibly be using them in their own homes.

Re: Bring Back Our Knobs: Analog vs. Digital (2009)

#126

Seriously. Without a dedicated on/off/volume knob for the soundsystem, the driving experience is diminished drastically, no matter how nice the car. And of course touch is way better than eyesight when you are supposed to be paying attention to the road. As someone else said, rough motor skills are safer and more appropriate in a car then controls needing fine motor skills.

I know this makes me a clueless annoying boring techie nerd :), but I still cannot properly fathom how this is a minority opinion. NOBODY in my non-techie group of friends or family cares. Not.even.remotely. I watch them struggle with their touch screens, I even listen to them rant, but when asked about it afterwards, it's fine. Just fine. Sexy. Sleek. Desirable. Why do I have to go and ruin everything? Honestly, eve…

I recently bought a new car. The old one had HVAC as you described. I don't use the new one any differently though. When it's really cold, I turn the heat all the way up until I'm comfortable. Then I turn it down and keep it there. This is exactly what I did in my old car too. In the new one I just don't use the "auto" feature, and haven't even tried because my established behavior still applies.

Then only difference is that in the old car I knew that when it was really cold and I reached a comfortable level, I turned the knob to about two notches left of center, in the red area. In every older car I ever had it was slightly different and I learned quickly where my preference was. That's just like the new car where, once my comfort level is reached, I set things back down to 74F and leave it there.

Do some cars not allow users to disable auto? Mine has a dedicated button to enabling/disabling it. Otherwise, I agree that red/blue seemed to be a little clearer, but it only took me a few days of cold weather to find the sweet spot, same as any car I've ever driven

HVAC aside, I agree on other issues. Touch screen audio controls are awful and much more distracting to adjust while driving. I have to be very care to pick my moment. I think if I was so inclined, I could set things up so that I could argue with Google Assistant to do some of this stuff.

That frustration is offset a bit by the fact that-- and this will amaze you-- a button will roll my windows up or down. Not some crank I have to turn. And another button on the "key" will unlock the door from like 30 feet away! But I have problems leaving my keys in the car because I no longer have to actually hold, turn, and remove a physical key to get out of my car.

Trade offs! Hopefully UX design will gently nudge use back to a better middle ground.

Re: Bring Back Our Knobs: Analog vs. Digital (2009)

#127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Whereas with Auto, you literally never know what you're going to get. It's not on conscious level - everybody thinks their Auto A/C it's awesome. Until you watch their actual sub-conscious behaviour on a drive. Honest question: do you really see people touch the level of their ac during a drive? Auto is actual temperature control. The system tries to stay at the set temperature. It’s a lot more comfortable that hav…

>>Honest question: do you really see people touch the level of their ac during a drive? Honest answer, not fudged for sake of making a point - Yes. Absolutely. I don't know if hyper-expensive luxury vehicles do better, but I can vouch that my wife has been frequently changing in our 2012 Kia Sportage, 2016 RAV4, and now 2019 Honda Odyssey. I've observed others do so frequently in Toyota Corolla, Honda Civiv, Subaru C…

It's not the control system, it's the psychology. People just aren't willing to let the car control the temperature automatically. It drives me nuts, but that's the reality. I've yet to find a car made after about 1990 that doesn't handle it better than people do. Fiddling with the setpoint and/or the output just makes the system never settle. If you just leave it alone it gets the job done. But I'd say it's about 10-20% of drivers that actually do that. The rest screw with it constantly.

Re: Bring Back Our Knobs: Analog vs. Digital (2009)

#128

Seriously. Without a dedicated on/off/volume knob for the soundsystem, the driving experience is diminished drastically, no matter how nice the car. And of course touch is way better than eyesight when you are supposed to be paying attention to the road. As someone else said, rough motor skills are safer and more appropriate in a car then controls needing fine motor skills.

I know this makes me a clueless annoying boring techie nerd :), but I still cannot properly fathom how this is a minority opinion. NOBODY in my non-techie group of friends or family cares. Not.even.remotely. I watch them struggle with their touch screens, I even listen to them rant, but when asked about it afterwards, it's fine. Just fine. Sexy. Sleek. Desirable. Why do I have to go and ruin everything? Honestly, eve…

I've had such a different experience in my vehicles. Even my 2000 Honda Accord had thermostatic controls that were usually excellent at keeping me comfortable. These days with remote start from an app and scheduling trips it can be 100F outside but by the time I'm getting in the car is a nice 73F inside.

I'm not constantly fiddling with my home's thermostat, why would I be doing the same with my car's? I'm sorry all your cars have had such terrible AC systems.

Re: Bring Back Our Knobs: Analog vs. Digital (2009)

#129
Ideal cockpit panel is one with a bunch of knob and a bunch of switch with e-ink label that allow you to freely reassign, and maybe a resitive instead of capacitive touch screen for some odds thing. They are less prone to accidently touching and work with gloves

Re: Bring Back Our Knobs: Analog vs. Digital (2009)

#130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem you're describing (Auto AC) isn't that automatic ac doesn't work, but that it's working within a small, very confined space and those differences in temperature are felt immediately. From a personal perspective, I'd rather set it and forget it. It's why when I rarely use the car AC, one button is all it takes and it adjusts to something between 70 and 73, which is about the same it would be at home. When…

You don't find it annoying having to override the 'intelligent' system? With manual control, I can immediately start or stop hot and cold air; with a climate system, I can merely propose some higher or lower temperature, and the system may or may not do what I want it to do. I temporarily drove a Buick that had such a system, and found myself constantly having to override what the 'intelligent' system thought I wante…

I don't find it annoying particularly, but that's probably because a single tactile button push in my old 2004 Chrysler changes the HVAC settings from auto to manual. Still prefer the set it and forget it thermostat, however. Having both options is best, which is precisely what the article was about, and we're not in disagreement here, to be clear. Was merely discussing the merits of climate controlled hvac.
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