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Bring Back Our Knobs: Analog vs. Digital (2009)

popularmechanics.com

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Re: Bring Back Our Knobs: Analog vs. Digital (2009)

#21

Post by tuatoru »

mojuba wrote: post #20
tuatoru wrote: post #16

> So what do product designers have against knobs? Several things. ... Then the piece omits the two overwhelmingly important reasons: cost and reliability. Knobs definitely are much better to use, but things with moving parts that stick out from the surface are not as reliable in population terms. Most people never have trouble, but that quintile that gives their stuff a hard time costs manufacturers a lot.

> Then the piece omits the two overwhelmingly important reasons: cost and reliability. Plus that not all industrial designers can create great designs. Often times when I look at e.g. my Bosch electric cooktop I can only imagine its awful touch panel was an afterthought in the design process. It's so bad, awkward and hard to use, it makes me feel sorry for those who created this thing. And for all its users just as w…

No, you don't replace the steering wheel because that's safety critical and the superiority of the UI is overwhelmingly important. You don't get to sell the product at all with a defect like that, so the "cost to the manufacturer" is pretty big.

The entertainment system, or a phone? Not safety critical, no need to provide real-time interaction. Cost dominates.

Re: Bring Back Our Knobs: Analog vs. Digital (2009)

#22

Post by troutmskreplica »

bjt wrote: post #17
rp1 wrote: post #2

I too want knobs, but this line exemplifies why they're not coming back: > I wonder if Apple iPhone will meet with the same success, as its touchscreen offers no tactile feedback. Will people get tired of having to look down every time they dial a number?

Knobs have already come back in some contexts. I'm thinking of music keyboard workstations and stage keyboards. The products from Nord have swept the stage keyboard market because of their one-knob-per-function design, allowing for quick mid-song adjustments with no menu diving.

I was going to make the same point, more generally about electronic music gear.

People greatly favor knob-per-function and minimal menu diving. Having some kind of screen and minimal menus for rarely used features is fine, too, but anything that’s about playability and something you want to tweak in real time needs a knob or slider interface.

Re: Bring Back Our Knobs: Analog vs. Digital (2009)

#23

Post by Amezarak »

tuatoru wrote: post #16

> So what do product designers have against knobs? Several things. ... Then the piece omits the two overwhelmingly important reasons: cost and reliability. Knobs definitely are much better to use, but things with moving parts that stick out from the surface are not as reliable in population terms. Most people never have trouble, but that quintile that gives their stuff a hard time costs manufacturers a lot.

> but things with moving parts that stick out from the surface are not as reliable in population terms.

I would be really delighted to know if auto manufacturers in particular really have data on this, and what they count as a failure.

I've seen a lot more electronics failures than I have mechanical failures in cars and appliances, and the trend seems to stick with displays and knobs. For example, the first thing to break on my car was a display, which I still haven't fixed because it would be hundreds of dollars. I have an old truck with some broken knobs, but the posts they sat on still work, so they're still usable. If I did need to fix them I suspect it'd be a lot cheaper.

Color me skeptical that increasingly fancy touchscreen displays are going to have any staying power. This has always kind of smelled like it was simply based on a logical axiom that "less moving parts is better and more reliable" rather than practical reality in the late 2010s-2020s.

Re: Bring Back Our Knobs: Analog vs. Digital (2009)

#24

Post by stinos »

bjt wrote: post #17
rp1 wrote: post #2

I too want knobs, but this line exemplifies why they're not coming back: > I wonder if Apple iPhone will meet with the same success, as its touchscreen offers no tactile feedback. Will people get tired of having to look down every time they dial a number?

Knobs have already come back in some contexts. I'm thinking of music keyboard workstations and stage keyboards. The products from Nord have swept the stage keyboard market because of their one-knob-per-function design, allowing for quick mid-song adjustments with no menu diving.

Were knobs ever gone in this context though?

Re: Bring Back Our Knobs: Analog vs. Digital (2009)

#25

Post by YeBanKo »

tuatoru wrote: post #16

> So what do product designers have against knobs? Several things. ... Then the piece omits the two overwhelmingly important reasons: cost and reliability. Knobs definitely are much better to use, but things with moving parts that stick out from the surface are not as reliable in population terms. Most people never have trouble, but that quintile that gives their stuff a hard time costs manufacturers a lot.

That seems like a claim without data support. Cost, sure. Reliability, I doubt there is a difference in reliability within product lifecycle. My anecdotal experience: every car I owned had a knob for music volume. It never broke. Other things broke, sometimes making car repair economically unviable. But the knob did not break.

Re: Bring Back Our Knobs: Analog vs. Digital (2009)

#28

Post by Wistar »

bluedino wrote: post #18
tuatoru wrote: post #16

> So what do product designers have against knobs? Several things. ... Then the piece omits the two overwhelmingly important reasons: cost and reliability. Knobs definitely are much better to use, but things with moving parts that stick out from the surface are not as reliable in population terms. Most people never have trouble, but that quintile that gives their stuff a hard time costs manufacturers a lot.

I'll take knobs over membrane buttons. Can't believe the entire appliance industry switched.

High-end ovens, such as those above, say, $5k, almost always have knobs.

I sure appreciate tuning knobs on car audio systems but almost no one besides Toyota and Lexus offer them any more.

Re: Bring Back Our Knobs: Analog vs. Digital (2009)

#29

Post by yeetaccount2 »

framecowbird wrote: post #3
rp1 wrote: post #2

I too want knobs, but this line exemplifies why they're not coming back: > I wonder if Apple iPhone will meet with the same success, as its touchscreen offers no tactile feedback. Will people get tired of having to look down every time they dial a number?

I hate the keyboard on my phone. For dialing a number, it's awful. Give me an old phone any day! But the smartphone does so many other things, I put up with it. That doesn't mean to say i wouldn't greatly welcome a smartphone with a dial on the edge, or a touchscreen with tactile feedback. But due to lack of imagination of designers, technical impossibility, or economic cost (i don't know which...) there's no such th…

I can accept the touchscreen for its broad utility, but poor UI is intolerable. Like how Android keeps covering up the dial pad button in the phone app with inane messages about duplicate contacts. When I want to dial a phone number, sometimes I need to do it “right now”, and I don’t care about duplicate contacts or whatever stupid thing it wants to nag me about. Put that shit in my notifications so I can deal with it in my own time, or just swipe it away.

Don’t get me started on text selection on iThings.

Re: Bring Back Our Knobs: Analog vs. Digital (2009)

#30

Post by SyzygistSix »

Seriously. Without a dedicated on/off/volume knob for the soundsystem, the driving experience is diminished drastically, no matter how nice the car.

And of course touch is way better than eyesight when you are supposed to be paying attention to the road. As someone else said, rough motor skills are safer and more appropriate in a car then controls needing fine motor skills.

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