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Bring Back Our Knobs: Analog vs. Digital (2009)

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Re: Bring Back Our Knobs: Analog vs. Digital (2009)

#61

Post by ajsnigrutin »

webwielder2 wrote: post #4
rp1 wrote: post #2

I too want knobs, but this line exemplifies why they're not coming back: > I wonder if Apple iPhone will meet with the same success, as its touchscreen offers no tactile feedback. Will people get tired of having to look down every time they dial a number?

Datedness of that speculation aside, was dialing numbers without looking at the keypad something people did a lot? Busy Wall Street types maybe?

Typing SMSes in school and college was easy with a classic keypad, and the error rates were very low... now even with watching the screen I make more mistakes than then.

Re: Bring Back Our Knobs: Analog vs. Digital (2009)

#62

Post by masklinn »

stinos wrote: post #24
bjt wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Knobs have already come back in some contexts. I'm thinking of music keyboard workstations and stage keyboards. The products from Nord have swept the stage keyboard market because of their one-knob-per-function design, allowing for quick mid-song adjustments with no menu diving.

Were knobs ever gone in this context though?

> Were knobs ever gone in this context though?

Yeah, not all of them but compare a DX7 to a Montage 7.

The DX has 2 sliders and 2 wheels, and a bunch of membrane buttons.

The Montage has 2 wheels and something like 10 sliders and knobs, ignoring the general-purpose knob and selector wheel next to the display, plus a ton of specialised physical buttons.

Re: Bring Back Our Knobs: Analog vs. Digital (2009)

#63

Post by genewitch »

markdown wrote: post #46
Wistar wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

High-end ovens, such as those above, say, $5k, almost always have knobs. I sure appreciate tuning knobs on car audio systems but almost no one besides Toyota and Lexus offer them any more.

I have a 2019 Toyota Hilux (called Tacoma's in the US) and it doesn't have any knobs or buttons at all. However, the 2021 brought them back. https://imgur.com/a/Qtfartc

As ghastly as that is, your uri is qt fartc.

Re: Bring Back Our Knobs: Analog vs. Digital (2009)

#64

Post by monocasa »

at_compile_time wrote: post #43
bluedino wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll take knobs over membrane buttons. Can't believe the entire appliance industry switched.

Appliances used to be way more reliable too. I grew up in the 90s with appliances from the 70s and 80s that still worked when they were replaced a few years ago. The new oven has already shit the bed and needs a new board. Everything is more complicated than it used to be, more likely to break as a result, and requires specialized parts to fix. And if the manufacturer doesn't sell that part anymore, your stuck buying…

Same. I bought a house recently, and the appliances are all from the early 90s except a couple from the late 50s. My parents asked when I'm going to replace them, and I reminded them that they've had to replace their oven twice in the past ten years because none of the new stuff works for any time period. Meanwhile my appliances are at their youngest old enough to be talking to their little appliance friends about their appliance 401k.

Re: Bring Back Our Knobs: Analog vs. Digital (2009)

#65

Post by bitbckt »

markdown wrote: post #46
Wistar wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

High-end ovens, such as those above, say, $5k, almost always have knobs. I sure appreciate tuning knobs on car audio systems but almost no one besides Toyota and Lexus offer them any more.

I have a 2019 Toyota Hilux (called Tacoma's in the US) and it doesn't have any knobs or buttons at all. However, the 2021 brought them back. https://imgur.com/a/Qtfartc

A Hilux and Tacoma are two different vehicles: different engine options, different chassis, and almost zero interchangeable parts.

Try taking a Tacoma to a parts counter outside the US, or Hilux to one in the US, and you’ll just get blank stares.

Re: Bring Back Our Knobs: Analog vs. Digital (2009)

#66

Post by frosted-flakes »

hallway_monitor wrote: post #37
selfhoster11 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see why not. Typing on Android has been an unceasing exercise in frustration ever since the real Swype and HTC keyboards went defunct. I made 5 typing errors while writing this message alone.

Really? I can type exceptionally quickly and actually using the android swipe typing. At least as good as the original Swype. Sure it's not as fast as a physical keyboard, but I'm not writing a novel on this device. (3 typos made writing this)

Is that "actually" supposed to be "accurately"? Kind of undermines your point, doesn't it?

Re: Bring Back Our Knobs: Analog vs. Digital (2009)

#67

Post by jedimastert »

Not a car, but my main gigging keyboard for as long as I've been gigging has been the Korg SV-1, and a big part of the reason is that there's no screens, only knobs. It's a pretty great interface, all in all. 90% of the time I use the presets I made for myself the first week I got it, but whenever I need something else I have no trouble doing it within seconds.

It's fairly limited, in terms of features and sound bank, but it's amazing at what it does.

Re: Bring Back Our Knobs: Analog vs. Digital (2009)

#69

Post by achenatx »

jedberg wrote: post #51

I think Honda got this exactly right, at least in my 2018 car. There is a touchscreen that controls everything, but also physical knobs and buttons for the important stuff you'd want to control while keep your eyes on the road (radio volume, A/C, radio frequency, seat heaters, transmission gear, etc). If you want more detail and more options, you can go to the touchscreen, but if you just need the basics, you can do…

my 2015 honda odyssey is terrible.

They have these huge knobs that dont control anything important on the radio. The giant knob only lets you scroll through presets.

XM tuning is buried multiple screen taps in, then if you want to manually tune you have to tap up and down, through 100 channels.

Re: Bring Back Our Knobs: Analog vs. Digital (2009)

#70

Post by AshamedCaptain »

tuatoru wrote: post #16

> So what do product designers have against knobs? Several things. ... Then the piece omits the two overwhelmingly important reasons: cost and reliability. Knobs definitely are much better to use, but things with moving parts that stick out from the surface are not as reliable in population terms. Most people never have trouble, but that quintile that gives their stuff a hard time costs manufacturers a lot.

There is a shitton of very crappy rotary encoders out there that attest to that.

For example, most microwaves I've seen that use knobs tend to wear them down pretty fast. Mine has a pretty much analog timer and just cannot be set for anything less than 1 min since it will randomly stop somewhere in the 0-60s interval due to wear.

A relative's oven has a digital relative rotary encoder, but again due to wear it tends to skip some positions from time to time. Meaning you'll rotate 180 degs and some days that will mean 30min, some days it will mean 10min, and then some other days it means 2 seconds. It also uses the same knob to set the RTC, and with the knob in such state it is so much of a chore they have basically succumbed to the 12:00 phenomena.

I am a big fan of "knobs" (specially compared to capacitive buttons) but these days they are no longer reliable at all.

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