Why Are Topre Keyboards So Expensive? • Hacker News Board

Re: Why Are Topre Keyboards So Expensive?

#381

Post by donio » Sat, Nov 20, 2021, 5:20 PM UTC

memco wrote: post #380

donio wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Datahand keyboards used to cost $500-$1000 depending on the model and time of purchase.

Thanks for the interesting rabbit hole. I’ve been using a split ortho keyboard and while I’m quite happy with it I think there’s a small bit of FOMO whenever I see a unique design. Applies to the Topre and the Datahand equally: would be curious to try them, but probably not enough to procure one.

Yeah, hard to get them nowadays. They never made very many of them and the remaining ones are 20 years old now. There have been attempts to re-create it over the years, getting the switches to feel as good as the originals is probably the most difficult part.

These might be the closest ones yet: https://github.com/JesusFreke/lalboard

and the v2: https://hackaday.io/project/178232-lalboard-ergonomic-keyboa...

Re: Why Are Topre Keyboards So Expensive?

#382

Post by gennarro » Sat, Nov 20, 2021, 5:54 PM UTC

BoorishBears wrote: post #19

gennarro wrote: post #3

Longtime topre user. They ruined me on all other keyboards. The best there is.

My HHKB Type S collects dust since the Boba U4 came out. It's a mechanical switch with a D shaped tactile bump. The end result is a bottom out that feels similar to a Topre, but a much crisper action up and down.

Just bought some demo switches based on your tip. Thank you!

Re: Why Are Topre Keyboards So Expensive?

#383

Post by jonaustin » Sat, Nov 20, 2021, 6:02 PM UTC

mysecretaccount wrote: post #286

vehemenz wrote: post #216

Topre switches are great! But can someone explain the draw of HHKBs? Aside from nerd street cred, that is. A lot of programmers swear by them, but I don't understand why. Let's talk about the layout. As a Vim user, I need my CapsLock->Esc. Fine, so I'll remap Ctrl—but inexplicably, there are huge gaps where the regular Ctrl keys would be. There are no arrow keys or nav cluster, which means you need to use layers or k…

> As a Vim user, I need my CapsLock->Esc. Fine, so I'll remap Ctrl I think typically vim users will map caps lock to ctrl and use ctrl+[ when escape is needed.

Map caps lock to ctrl and then set it to trigger escape when tapped, ctrl wehn held down.

Re: Why Are Topre Keyboards So Expensive?

#384

Post by chevill » Sat, Nov 20, 2021, 6:41 PM UTC

gennarro wrote: post #3

Longtime topre user. They ruined me on all other keyboards. The best there is.

Its subjective. I have a $1200 Topre modded with a Norbaforce case and custom domes, pretty much as good as it gets, but its not even close to my favorite keyboard. Its nice but I'd rank Zeal tactile switches, Box Jade, Box Navy, Tactile Alps, Blue/White/Amber Alps, and Zeal linear ahead of them.

So far I like Amber Alps the best by a large margin. They are kind of hard to find though. Like I said though its subjective. There are some people that try every key switch under the sun and still like MX Browns the best. There is no "best" switch and there is no wrong choice.

Also, for the uninitiated, a Topre is a unique type of rubber dome keyboard. Unlike most rubber domes, they actually feel quite nice and better than many mechanical switches. They aren't technically a mechanical switch though.

Re: Why Are Topre Keyboards So Expensive?

#385

Post by Dylan16807 » Sat, Nov 20, 2021, 7:06 PM UTC

pests wrote: post #328

aix1 wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There are no arrow keys or nav cluster, which means you need to use layers or key combinations to access them. I have no problem relearning how to use my keyboard, but dedicated keys are still faster and easier. "Easier" is subjective and so I won't address it. As to "faster", I have ♢+{🄸,🄹,🄺,🄻} mapped to {up,left,down,right} making them much quicker to access than reaching for a dedicated cluster of arrow keys…

Is typing speed really a limiting factor for our job? I could put my toilet in my bedroom, would make waking up to piss much quicker, but each room has a purpose and a mood. The ijkl keys are for typing. The navigation cluster is for navigating. Why mix

Typing is constantly interspersed with navigation. Splitting them apart is more like deciding you don't want to keep your soap next to your sink.

Re: Why Are Topre Keyboards So Expensive?

#386

Post by Dylan16807 » Sat, Nov 20, 2021, 7:22 PM UTC

dopu wrote: post #288

papandada wrote: post #226

I skipped the whole mechanical keyboard acquisition cycle (thanks to a comment or two from HN), bought a Niz, totally happy with it and best keyboard I've used, haven't been tempted to keep searching.

I’ve tried mechanicals (Cherry switches), various rubber domes, the IBM buckling spring keyboards, and the Apple scissor switches. Then I was recommended the Niz by a friend, and it’s the closest thing to ideal I’ve ever used. To be honest, owning mechanicals made me realize how gimmicky they are. They distract me from my own writing, and can be a huge pain in the ass to coworkers or close ones trying to sleep. Unusa…

Don't paint all mechanical keyboards with the same loud brush. They can be quieter than a basic membrane keyboard.

Re: Why Are Topre Keyboards So Expensive?

#387

Post by comboy » Sat, Nov 20, 2021, 7:36 PM UTC

BoorishBears wrote: post #295

andrewzah wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also have a type-s hhkb with the silencing o-rings and I’ve never thought that it sounds noisy. I’ve experimented with various keyboards but for me the sound and the action of the hhkb are my favorite. I just wish it had the layout of the Leopold FC660C.

Like I said, mine is a Type S. They are inherently rattly. Plastic case plus very loose tolerances on the switches = it rattles. It's great if it doesn't bother you, it didn't really bother me until I got to experience better. Even something as small as resting fingers on a key feels so much nicer when the switch has 0 play

I examined mine carefully after reading your comments and.. did you buy it directly from HHKB? Maybe you have some counterfeit?

But you may be right, I'm not such a keyboard aficionado, I only had a few mechanical keyboards and maybe my standards are too low (or rather, at level which keeps me happy).

But as somebody else noted if you found the holy grail please share.

Re: Why Are Topre Keyboards So Expensive?

#388

Post by 5tefan » Sat, Nov 20, 2021, 8:19 PM UTC

I went for Topre because of the hype. Was interested how it lives up to it. In the meanwhile Topre solved some issues I had with some of my finger joints. Very relaxed typing. Fewer typos. Cushioned bottoming out. No pain anymore.

Have a 100% Realforce in ISO GER layout for number crunching and "general" computing. F Keys, numpad.

My fav board so far is the FC660c silent. Top notch quality. The silencing makes me appreciate the Topre feel even more. Small form factor to have a short distance to grab the mouse. That helps my shoulder. Getting old, I guess. My only wish is for a BT version.

Re: Why Are Topre Keyboards So Expensive?

#389

Post by ouid » Sat, Nov 20, 2021, 8:22 PM UTC

memco wrote: post #87

> You’ve seen people test Topre boards such as the HHKB, Realforce, Leopold, and some Topre-clone boards too, and many rave about the way they sound and feel. No, I haven't heard of Topre or seen any reviews until now. > Topre boards, why are they so expensive? ... $250 ... Although I suspect many keyboard enthusiasts might usually hover in the $100-$200 range for their pieces, $250 for parts and labor isn't that exp…

That's because this post, and I suspect many of the comments here, are advertisements.

Re: Why Are Topre Keyboards So Expensive?

#390

Post by ouid » Sat, Nov 20, 2021, 8:24 PM UTC

sgarman wrote: post #89

ouid wrote: post #74

This kinda seems like an advertisement masquerading as a review.

Maybe but: I was so into mechanical keyboards, researched all the keycaps and switches and different layouts, configurations etc. It can be a huge hobby. Then I bought a Realforce Topre and haven't looked at a single mechanical keyboard thing since. It's just a seriously good keyboard.

This comment also seems like an advertisement masquerading as a review.