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Clean Streets: People taking San Francisco’s trash into their own hands

missionlocal.org

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Re: Clean Streets: People taking San Francisco’s trash into their own hands

#71

Post by _dain_ »

tekproxy wrote: post #70
_dain_ wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

okay, how about we put up billboards saying >When you smash a window to rob a store, be careful not to cut yourself on the glass. Wear thick gloves. after all, a billboard is not going to stop a burglar, is it? and if we're going to have burglaries, it's better that the burglars don't injure themselves while committing their crimes, because after all it will reduce the burden on hospitals. it will also protect the st…

Just move. California doesn't deserve you. People there think you can only use carrots and sticks are immoral.

oh I don't live in CA, I just know people who do

Re: Clean Streets: People taking San Francisco’s trash into their own hands

#72

Post by refurb »

jonpurdy wrote: post #37
another_story wrote: post #4

In Taiwan the locals, usually the elderly, sweep and clean near their own houses or the parks where they congregate. Some do it as part of a neighborhood group, while others clean parks and areas near temples for religious reasons. Good way to build community. On another note, let people read without pop-ups please.

It wasn't until I rented a floor of a house (and garage and front yard) in SF (Outer Sunset) last year that I really noticed the problem in North America with personal responsibility and keeping streets clean. I'm constantly picking up litter from my tiny front yard, sidewalk, and curb. Cigarette butts are the worst and I bought a small electric leaf blower to help deal with it quickly. It wouldn't be as much of an i…

Singapore is sparkling clean. Like walk down a back alley in the center of the city and you will not find trash. It’s almost creepy.

It’s mostly certainly not due to civic mindedness. Join the Singapore subreddit and examples abound of locals throwing trash everywhere and generally being dicks.

It’s clean because the government has a pool of cheap labor they can use to constantly clean.

Re: Clean Streets: People taking San Francisco’s trash into their own hands

#74

Post by refurb »

tafda wrote: post #66
pwthornton wrote: post #31

One of the things that causes littering is a lack of trash cans or a lack of non-filled trash cans. Not all littering (or throwing recycling in the trash) is done out of pure malice. If you make it easy for people to throw trash out, they generally will. If you make it hard to throw trash out, many will litter. Stronger fines and other enforcement would help, but the first thing is to make sure that you actually have…

Worse than that, SF has tried removing trash cans on a theory they’re and attractive nuisance. An absence of trash cans works in Tokyo, not so much in North America: https://missionlocal.org/2021/03/newsoms-experiment-to-get-r...

This seems self defeating? They removed the trash can near my corner. Sure, people used it for personal trash and often dumped unwanted items next to it.

Getting rid of it seems…to make things worse? People still dump their trash, it’s just more spread out now.

Re: Clean Streets: People taking San Francisco’s trash into their own hands

#75

Post by refurb »

Zababa wrote: post #45

I don't understand. I often hear about people making $200k, $300k a year in that city. I know that it's not everyone, but I think there are lots of people like that. Why is this problem not solved by the market? That may make a good YCombinator project, go to San Francisco-based tech companies, ask them (or the people in them) to give you money to clean the streets. Is this because there is no cheap labour in San Fra…

I can’t remember the details but Google tried to create free WiFi across all of SF and eventually dropped it due to the problems of getting everything through city hall.

Imagine that shit… Google gave up.

Re: Clean Streets: People taking San Francisco’s trash into their own hands

#76

Post by refurb »

blunte wrote: post #10

I just don't understand why throwing trash on the ground is tolerated. There is virtually no argument for why someone should need or be allowed to throw or leave their trash on the ground. Most of us manage to get clothes on before we leave the house each day, and that's a lot more complicated than just putting trash into a bin (or god forbid, carrying it until you reach a destination which has a trash bin). So there…

People are shitting in the streets, shooting drugs in the open and shoplifting with no consequences and you think SF is willing to impose severe penalties on littering?

Re: Clean Streets: People taking San Francisco’s trash into their own hands

#77

Post by refurb »

DantesKite wrote: post #13
blunte wrote: post #10

I just don't understand why throwing trash on the ground is tolerated. There is virtually no argument for why someone should need or be allowed to throw or leave their trash on the ground. Most of us manage to get clothes on before we leave the house each day, and that's a lot more complicated than just putting trash into a bin (or god forbid, carrying it until you reach a destination which has a trash bin). So there…

Singapore generally has very clean streets, but the price is very high fines. I like the idea of a $1000 fine or community service spent cleaning up trash.

Singapore has plenty of people littering. They also have a massive army that is constantly cleaning.

Yes, if caught (unlikely) you will be severely punished. But that’s not the reason Singapore is so clean.

Re: Clean Streets: People taking San Francisco’s trash into their own hands

#78

Post by dorianmariefr »

pwthornton wrote: post #31

One of the things that causes littering is a lack of trash cans or a lack of non-filled trash cans. Not all littering (or throwing recycling in the trash) is done out of pure malice. If you make it easy for people to throw trash out, they generally will. If you make it hard to throw trash out, many will litter. Stronger fines and other enforcement would help, but the first thing is to make sure that you actually have…

That’s what I wanted to do when I was in SF: put trash bins everywhere

Re: Clean Streets: People taking San Francisco’s trash into their own hands

#79

Post by yostrovs »

patrickyeon wrote: post #57
another_story wrote: post #4

In Taiwan the locals, usually the elderly, sweep and clean near their own houses or the parks where they congregate. Some do it as part of a neighborhood group, while others clean parks and areas near temples for religious reasons. Good way to build community. On another note, let people read without pop-ups please.

And it's a good model I think, to take some responsibility for public property. Not just "your sidewalk", as in the sidewalk that touches your private yard, but also "your street", "your town center", and "your local parks". I'm not interested in hearing about if it's "your job" or "your trash", if there's a situation you are unhappy about, and you can directly impact it, why not do so? I live in Oakland, CA, just of…

I pick up litter when out in nature, because I don't think anyone but me will pick it up. In a city like San Francisco there's a multi-billion dollar budget and a sanitation department that tax payers pay for so that they won't have to do it themselves. It's ridiculous to pay taxes and then be told to clean street trash if you don't like it.

Re: Clean Streets: People taking San Francisco’s trash into their own hands

#80

Post by minitoar »

_dain_ wrote: post #48
nkrisc wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but it also sends the message that shooting up heroin is tolerated, even encouraged So what? An addict is going to shoot up whether it’s tolerated or not, and non-addicts aren’t going to take up heroin because they say a billboard. If you really want to end it, it’s going to need to be a lot more comprehensive, expensive, and expansive than the presence or absence of a billboard.

okay, how about we put up billboards saying >When you smash a window to rob a store, be careful not to cut yourself on the glass. Wear thick gloves. after all, a billboard is not going to stop a burglar, is it? and if we're going to have burglaries, it's better that the burglars don't injure themselves while committing their crimes, because after all it will reduce the burden on hospitals. it will also protect the st…

Is there an epidemic of burglars injuring themselves I’m not aware of?
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