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Clean Streets: People taking San Francisco’s trash into their own hands

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Re: Clean Streets: People taking San Francisco’s trash into their own hands

#31

Post by pwthornton »

One of the things that causes littering is a lack of trash cans or a lack of non-filled trash cans. Not all littering (or throwing recycling in the trash) is done out of pure malice. If you make it easy for people to throw trash out, they generally will. If you make it hard to throw trash out, many will litter.

Stronger fines and other enforcement would help, but the first thing is to make sure that you actually have accurate places to throw stuff out (or have the culture where people bring stuff with them and throw out at home, like some non-American countries). This article mentions how the streets got really bad during the pandemic when the city stopped doing certain things.

SF, NYC, and other cities with trash problems could significantly solve this just by having more trash and recycling cans and by changing them more often. You'll notice how much cleaner DC and its surrounding urban areas are than SF and NYC and that's because they have a bigger commitment to making it easy to not litter and they do more cleaning.

Re: Clean Streets: People taking San Francisco’s trash into their own hands

#32

Post by qweqwweqwe-90i »

jijji wrote: post #9

Its sad that 1) so many people just throw trash on the steet, 2) there is no law enforcement preventing this behavior, 3) the city isnt paying any people (in my area the prisoners do it from the jail) and then 4) that it has come down to the residents to come up with their own pool of money to pay for this... every week you read stories of the human feces on sidewalks, public urination, needles left on sidewalks, pub…

This is a also a city with a multibillion dollar budget and some of the highest in the country.

Re: Clean Streets: People taking San Francisco’s trash into their own hands

#33

Post by _dain_ »

yeetman21 wrote: post #28
blunte wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're not going to stop a junkie from shooting up (without a comprehensive, life-changing program). So barring that, you might as well teach them how to be more safe so they don't end up in a hospital spending your tax money for emergency care... or worse, dead somewhere and likewise then consuming public funds to deal with it. [added] Since this is such a controversial topic, I would recommend reading about Portuga…

Would allowing nature to take its course and having them die really be that bad? It is better for society for them to not exist (in a peaceful manner ie not outright jailing/ worse) or for them to exist and harass innocent bystanders? Think about it this way, if they did not exist, and you had the power to create them, would would willingly/ purposefully create them? They are taking up resource that could be better s…

I'm the GP poster but I don't agree with this social darwinist crap at all. I bet you would never apply this logic if your own kids fell into drug addiction. it is not "nature" taking its course here, it is a sick, stupid society that tolerates the proliferation of mind-altering poisons and then shovels vast amounts of public money into useless fake "rehab" charities run by politically-connected grifters. there are people out there getting rich off all this misery and it isn't just the dealers.

Re: Clean Streets: People taking San Francisco’s trash into their own hands

#34

Post by baybal2 »

I advice HN readers to go, and to participate.

Besides actually cleaning the streets, it brings very big spotlight to the problem.

And in some rare cases, if activity like this may go viral, some people in charge of public sanitation might remember of the shame enough to do their work.

Re: Clean Streets: People taking San Francisco’s trash into their own hands

#35

Post by spoonjim »

themodelplumber wrote: post #26
blunte wrote: post #10

I just don't understand why throwing trash on the ground is tolerated. There is virtually no argument for why someone should need or be allowed to throw or leave their trash on the ground. Most of us manage to get clothes on before we leave the house each day, and that's a lot more complicated than just putting trash into a bin (or god forbid, carrying it until you reach a destination which has a trash bin). So there…

> throwing trash on the ground This is only part of the issue. I've been picking up trash for years while walking or hiking in the outdoors and have observed a lot of different situations and setups that are really common: - Pocket design on clothing isn't designed to allow easy litter insertion, exactly. A lot falls out of coats, jogging pouches when people think it's secure. Open wrappers from things like candy or…

The animals thing is huge. I have a backyard with 8 foot fences and clean out 3-4 pieces of food wrapping every day from my backyard, hauled in by various animals.

Re: Clean Streets: People taking San Francisco’s trash into their own hands

#36

Post by dilap »

blunte wrote: post #10

I just don't understand why throwing trash on the ground is tolerated. There is virtually no argument for why someone should need or be allowed to throw or leave their trash on the ground. Most of us manage to get clothes on before we leave the house each day, and that's a lot more complicated than just putting trash into a bin (or god forbid, carrying it until you reach a destination which has a trash bin). So there…

Lot of people with serious mental health and substance abuse issues on the streets of SF, at least when I lived there (moved away about 6 months ago).

Beyond trash, the streets actually had a lot of shit and piss on them, too. I think it's hard to really understand just how bad it was unless you go there. I'd watch movies and they didn't seem real to me because the streets were too clean.

To me it seems like an obvious failure of the government, but perhaps it does reflect a popular sentiment of the dominant culture, that people's individual right to live a life of misery in squalor on the street trumps any other concern. I dunno.

Re: Clean Streets: People taking San Francisco’s trash into their own hands

#37

Post by jonpurdy »

another_story wrote: post #4

In Taiwan the locals, usually the elderly, sweep and clean near their own houses or the parks where they congregate. Some do it as part of a neighborhood group, while others clean parks and areas near temples for religious reasons. Good way to build community. On another note, let people read without pop-ups please.

It wasn't until I rented a floor of a house (and garage and front yard) in SF (Outer Sunset) last year that I really noticed the problem in North America with personal responsibility and keeping streets clean.

I'm constantly picking up litter from my tiny front yard, sidewalk, and curb. Cigarette butts are the worst and I bought a small electric leaf blower to help deal with it quickly. It wouldn't be as much of an issue if everyone took care of their own front property as well, instead of leaving litter and letting it blow onto mine. Also doesn't help that people see a full garbage can at nearby fields and just place their waste next to it instead of bringing it with them.

I think the big problem here is that there's no inertia to keep the place clean.

I recently ran into a great youtube video※ about how Japan stays clean (spoiler: it's about personal responsibility from a young age). When kids have to clean their own classrooms and be held accountable by their peers, they grow up with good habits. When I lived in South Korea, it wasn't as spotless as Japan despite a similar education, but not as bad as North American cities.

I would absolutely support littering enforcement officers, paid by large fines (in addition to community service), constantly roaming areas. Not sure how practical it would be in lower density areas like Outer Sunset but I can see it working along any commercial strips, or downtown.

※ - https://youtu.be/BOGMkgnc2YY

Re: Clean Streets: People taking San Francisco’s trash into their own hands

#38

Post by spoonjim »

exhilaration wrote: post #18
OJFord wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Canada they clear the snow/ice from the pavement in front of their own house. I've since heard it's (in at least some areas?) required though, which ruined the image a bit. (And sort of odd isn't it? Instead of taxing you and providing you with this service, we'll require you to do it? Seems inefficient.)

This is true in most of the U.S. as well. If you've got a sidewalk in front of your house, you'll get a fine if you don't clear the snow 24-36 hours after the end of a snowstorm. A workaround is to buy your home in a neighborhood without sidewalks.

That’s a terrible workaround, now your neighborhood is non walkable.
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