Live data from Hacker News

Tech journalism is less diverse than tech (2020)

oonwoye.com

241–250 of 267 posts

Re: Tech journalism is less diverse than tech (2020)

#241
post #240
post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You started a hellish race flamewar with this comment. Not cool. Please don't take HN threads further into generic ideological flamewar. That's just what we don't want here, because it's extremely repetitive. It also almost always turns nasty. Those properties hold true regardless of which ideologies people are battling for or against. All of this is therefore off topic here. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelin…

I'm sorry, dang, that wasn't my intention. I should have known better. It won't happen again.

Appreciated!

Re: Tech journalism is less diverse than tech (2020)

#242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When you are privileged you have no extra weight or leg up over someone else on standardized tests. That is demonstrably not true. Wealthy people can and do spend legions on test prep and tutoring. But that said, I generally agree with some of the underlying sentiment, which is that many wealthy people value education and status that can be attained through scholastic achievement in a way that many poor people do n…

This is an unscientific point. One, test prep doesn’t help that much. Two, it’s not that expensive: https://www.realclearinvestigations.com/articles/2018/06/21/... > For them, Jiechu's price – $650 for a seven-week summer course, four hours a day, Monday to Friday – is a doable stretch. That comes to a bit less than $5 an hour, which is not exactly the “thousands of dollars in test prep” that Mr. Carranza cited.

$650 is a lot of money for a lot of people

Re: Tech journalism is less diverse than tech (2020)

#244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't see narratives about how everyone should get into finance. That is certainly a good ol boys club.

Getting into tech and getting a great-paying job is achievable and realistic for anyone from any background, right now. It's completely unregulated, there's no gatekeeping outside of factual knowledge, and people are actively encouraging diverse applicants with non-traditional educational backgrounds. Even if the experience for these people is not always as good as it could be, the community is trying. Getting into f…

I worked in finance, racial composition there is similar to tech these days. Hint: white is in the minority.

Re: Tech journalism is less diverse than tech (2020)

#245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's an anti-smug move: the point is we are all "within it all". Yes, we could talk about systemic racism etc. That is why one might engage in a lot of political projects. However a highly specific demand about ratios in upper-middle-class high-status industries... these specific demands are a little harder to parse. The #metoo movement was not about the masses in the industry, it was about the elites. The ac…

I think you are mistaking the media's tendency to focus on controversy in high-status arenas with a broader cultural/political movement that is not at all exclusively focused on elite status. Calls to integrate schools, calls to reduce our massive incarceration - all of those are designed to be broad based. That those people also want the people who tell media stories and who make political decisions and who run majo…

> Calls to integrate schools, calls to reduce our massive incarceration...

Are, indeed, not what i'm talking about.

Most people demanding jobs in journalism arent engaged in projects to reintegrate schools. I'm talking about those demanding the jobs, not MLK.

Re: Tech journalism is less diverse than tech (2020)

#246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Privileged white people who wants to preserve their privilege says that the poor white people are the problem and then kick those out in favor of black people. But the privileged white people are still there. And people wonder why poor white people don't like all of this "diversity" rethoric.

You may find that the black people they favor are also privileged. IE a Nigerian 1-percenter is just as black for affirmative action metrics as an African American from a broken family living in inner-city Baltimore, but the Nigerian is probably 1000x more likely to be accepted into an American college.

I never understood this. Imo the moral justification behind affirmative action is that the upper echelons of society should represent the demographic makeup of society in general. Importing people who look like the people who you try to represent is the opposite of representation.

Re: Tech journalism is less diverse than tech (2020)

#247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>My conclusion is that there is no desire to increase participation in or accessibility to the field of journalism, because of a rejection of the Jevons paradox. And consequently, the shrinking field seems to rely heavily on credentialism and connections to choose who becomes a journalist. As someone who has done both (and moved from journalism to engineering 4.5 years ago), I agree with the first half of your commen…

Thank you for the detailed response with your real-life experience and links; material like this is why I come here! Link 3 in particular sounds like a tailor-made companion piece to this article. > But even digital-first publications suffer to make a profit and become a business, and because the returns on a media investment are not ever going to be the 20x or 30x you get from a tech startup, the appetite for invest…

> Basically, what you're saying is the standard narrative, that free content on the web has destroyed the traditional media model. What I'm saying is the traditional large media houses have totally failed at embracing this model, and converting themselves into efficient producers of it. If they had shown more imagination, maybe we'd be reading information-packed Live Wires on NYTimesWire interspersed with ads, instead of Tweets interspersed with ads.

I actually don’t disagree with you at all. I think many of the newspapers have only themselves to blame. They were entirely unwilling to embrace digital until it was too late. But for many of them, it is too late. Because they are dead or owned by hedge funds that want to maximize profits and cut costs, and local reporting, even for stuff like city council meetings, is expensive because it has a smaller aggregate audience than just doing national stories. I think the challenge is that even before the collapse of print, you'd had an extended period of rollups of various newspaper owners thanks to eased regulations that has only accelerated over time. Gannett/GateHouse, all of the Tribune drama (which could be its own book), for two more recent examples) effectively means that most local papers are owned by a major conglomerate or hedge fund. I won’t even get into any of the pension stuff that has been horribly mismanaged (Poynter has had great coverage of that), but this report [1] from UNC Chapel Hill is five years old but does a great job showing how ownership of local papers has collapsed over the 2000s and how many papers have died. (It is somewhat ironic that one of the most important endowments/sponsors of journalism grants/research/education is the Knight Foundation, named for the newspaper magnate and half of once super publisher Knight Ridder, which was bought by McClatchy in 2006. McClatchy filed for bankruptcy in 2020 and was bought by a hedge fund in a bankruptcy auction. Meaning, Knight itself hasn’t existed in a material way in 15 years.)

Now, to be sure, as I said, those local papers did themselves no favors. And Knight Ridder and some others were more savvy about technology (McClatchy not so much), but it hasn’t worked. Or at least not at scale. There have been many attempts, but most of it has come from the wrong place. You had initiatives like Tim Armstrong's Patch, which was the idea of turning every local area into a blog, similar to that LiveWire concept you had. Patch expanded fast and was quickly sold along, with Armstrong to AOL, where as CEO Armstrong poured millions and millions into it, before having to accept defeat and sell it off at a massive loss. Patch still exists, but it’s much smaller in scope than what was its plan.

Then you have all of the attempts of Tribune to modernize, which have mostly been disastrous (Tronc). Google Digital First Media and read about how the foxes conspired with some of the hens to raid the henhouse [2]. Gannet has tried too and failed. But you’re not wrong that more innovation was needed from smarter people.

The New York Times did it. In 2014, their current publisher (who at the time was learning the business from his father and as a millennial, was one of the younger people in a power position at the paper), famously commissioned and was the lead author a digital innovation report [3] that excoriated the Times' strategy and seriously set it up for the success it has had over the last seven years. That’s ultimately how he got the publisher job in 2016, several years earlier than people expected. But the Times had a much stronger financial situation than most other papers and the gravitas and hubris to be innovative and take chances. That’s why it’s the Times. (It’s the Yankees of media companies)

I don’t mean to be dismissive. My own bias is def towards the tech/digital side of media, having never worked in local news and spending my whole career in digital (I graduated from college in 2008 and never even thought about going to print), but as someone who has been obsessed with tech and media my entire life, this is an area I’ve been watching for as long as I can remember. CJR, Poynter, Nieman, The Knight Foundation and others are actively trying to fund and incubate ideas for the future of news, especially at a local level, but it’s difficult. The Colorado Sun is one rare example of a local community paper, born from the ashes of the hedge-fund cultures, that has managed to break through, but it’s just a tough business.

[1]: http://newspaperownership.com/, http://newspaperownership.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/07.... alt link https://www.usnewsdeserts.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/07....

[2]: https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/02/hedge-fund-vampire-a...

[3]: https://www.scribd.com/doc/224608514/The-Full-New-York-Times...

Re: Tech journalism is less diverse than tech (2020)

#248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Haha, you're all so fucking angry you don't have breathless useful idiots like Wu, Scoble, Kelly, Swisher, or Shirky dominating the tech press anymore. It's precious!

Swisher was hardly positive tech press. I'm just glad there's people like Ben Thompson where the quality is so much higher. It's nice to have real competition now with people that can own their own distribution and aren't writing everything as some dumb narrative hit piece. The only ones left at the large orgs when the dust settles will be the mediocre writers targeting engagement via controversy. There's no reason t…

> Swisher was hardly positive tech press.

It would be more accurate to say Swisher is politically-connected press. When tech and political machines were in bed together (e.g., much of her time at AllThingsD and the founding of Recode, Obama in the whitehouse, Newsom in local SV politics...) she was extremely friendly to the industry. After the ca. 2016 fallout between the two she chose the politics side. The tech side of course sees this as a heel turn, rather than a fundamental shift in priorities from both parties.

Ben Thompson is just John Gruber without the sense of taste. You couldn't design a better sycophant if you tried.

Re: Tech journalism is less diverse than tech (2020)

#249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Swisher was hardly positive tech press. I'm just glad there's people like Ben Thompson where the quality is so much higher. It's nice to have real competition now with people that can own their own distribution and aren't writing everything as some dumb narrative hit piece. The only ones left at the large orgs when the dust settles will be the mediocre writers targeting engagement via controversy. There's no reason t…

> Swisher was hardly positive tech press. It would be more accurate to say Swisher is politically-connected press. When tech and political machines were in bed together (e.g., much of her time at AllThingsD and the founding of Recode, Obama in the whitehouse, Newsom in local SV politics...) she was extremely friendly to the industry. After the ca. 2016 fallout between the two she chose the politics side. The tech sid…

[flagged]

Re: Tech journalism is less diverse than tech (2020)

#250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you are mistaking the media's tendency to focus on controversy in high-status arenas with a broader cultural/political movement that is not at all exclusively focused on elite status. Calls to integrate schools, calls to reduce our massive incarceration - all of those are designed to be broad based. That those people also want the people who tell media stories and who make political decisions and who run majo…

> Calls to integrate schools, calls to reduce our massive incarceration... Are, indeed, not what i'm talking about. Most people demanding jobs in journalism arent engaged in projects to reintegrate schools. I'm talking about those demanding the jobs, not MLK.

Who are you even talking about - do you have an example?

Most people who want greater diversity in journalism aren't demanding jobs for themselves (indeed most of them aren't journalists and are not in that profession).

It seems you've constructed this whole narrative on a pretty thin basis.

Post reply on HN