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Why Are Topre Keyboards So Expensive?

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Re: Why Are Topre Keyboards So Expensive?

#321

Post by cehrlich »

Oddskar wrote: post #170
MeinBlutIstBlau wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same boat here. I'm eyeball some silent reds right now so if you could share what you got if you've had it for a while I'm all ears. Ideally I'd like to own a mechanical keyboard that just isn't going to have a key die on me.

You should try Gazzew Boba U4 Silent. Much more pleasant sounding.

They’re amazing. I picked them up a few months ago based on a random recommendation online, and couldn’t be happier. They’re 90% as satisfying to hit as Blues, but the noise level is similar to an Apple keyboard.

Re: Why Are Topre Keyboards So Expensive?

#322

Post by imposterr »

BoorishBears wrote: post #210
comboy wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My HHKB Hybrid Type-S is definitely less noisy than MX-Brown (at least in WASD keyboards edition). It may be more silent than my typing on macbook air, but it's hard to compare because it produces lower frequencies, definitely nicer sound than macbook keyboard to me and never even thought about it as noisy.

That's the exact HHKB I have and trust me, it's a noisy rattly mess compared to a good mech. Like just lightly glide your fingers across the keys and you should feel/hear the rattle. That same rattle continues as you type, it's just mixed in with the sound of bottoming out. For comparison, my mech is a solid feeling piece of aluminum, the keys have 0 wobble, and there are no rattles at all. It's night and day, I coul…

Which keyboard/switches are you using if I might ask?

Re: Why Are Topre Keyboards So Expensive?

#323

Post by vladvasiliu »

wildrhythms wrote: post #213
archarios wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't seem to understand that you don't need to bottom out your switches to actuate them. I have Kailh Copper switches which barely require me to push them down very far in order to actuate. Also they're pretty quiet. You can have your preferences, but blanketly saying that all mech keyboards "require too much strength" and are "loud" is wrong. The "expensive" part isn't even true in all cases.

The dexterity required to only press the key (roughly) half way to the actuation point is just as strenuous; you might as well be bottoming them out every time. I prefer extreme short travel keyboards for this reason. Quieter, shorter key travel distance, much less fatigue.

> The dexterity required to only press the key (roughly) half way to the actuation point is just as strenuous

You don't have to only press the key to the actuation point, you have to press it at least to it. You can then stop anywhere between that point and the bottom, which is easier to do with long travel keys.

In my experience this works best with lighter keys (requiring less force). I found this out when messing around with a cheaper mechanical keyboard[0] by realising that I had just stopped pressing the keys all the way. I wasn't even looking to "type better" or whatever, I was just curious about all the mech hype and was trying one out.

Getting back to membrane keyboards, in my case a 2013 MBP, was actually painful because the keys actually require more force to move past the rest position, but they then become very soft, so all the force becomes speed which then stops all of a sudden when I hit the bottom. To me, it's practically impossible to not bottom out the MBP keyboard because of the short travel. Also, since I got used to pressing the keys with too little force, I find I actually miss a lot of the keys, which had never happened before.

---

[0] Drevo Gramr with Outemu Brown switches

Re: Why Are Topre Keyboards So Expensive?

#325

Post by wdb »

nicopappl wrote: post #49

I have the privilege of owning a Happy Hacking 2, it has topre keys. I used it for about a year. And I hated it! It's insanely noisy, to the point of distraction. It's so damn loud. But the dealbreaker for me is how heavy and deep the keys are. It's just too much energy and travel time for efficient typing IMO. After long sessions my fingertips felt sore from the blunt damage of pushing down the keys. But I'll recogn…

I have tried them once but they just don't match the good old IBM keyboards

Re: Why Are Topre Keyboards So Expensive?

#326

Post by arvinsim »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #125
nicopappl wrote: post #49

I have the privilege of owning a Happy Hacking 2, it has topre keys. I used it for about a year. And I hated it! It's insanely noisy, to the point of distraction. It's so damn loud. But the dealbreaker for me is how heavy and deep the keys are. It's just too much energy and travel time for efficient typing IMO. After long sessions my fingertips felt sore from the blunt damage of pushing down the keys. But I'll recogn…

I worked at a company that gave people generous leeway to purchase computer gear they wanted. We already had good computers and monitors, so fancy mechanical keyboards were the #1 purchase for most people. The mechanical keyboard fans nerded out over different switches and other hardware, spending countless hours doing research and trying out different types of keys. And then slowly nearly everyone went back to regul…

It's possible that the went back to the old keyboards for another reason. Not because they dislike mech keyboards but because of analysis paralysis.

Re: Why Are Topre Keyboards So Expensive?

#327

Post by radicaldreamer »

fomine3 wrote: post #235
Findecanor wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Topre Realforce aren't really mechanical keyboards — they are rubber dome keyboards. They get lumped together with them only because they are high quality rubber domes, with a luxurious feel. I would best compare Topre to Key Tronic Lifetime and ErgoForce rubber dome keyboards from the '90s. Both those and Topre are full-travel, and have a distinct bottom-out feel, but they still require you to bottom out. They are a…

Libertouch was also a luxury high quality rubber dome keyboard like Realforce, but it's not known outside Japan. It uses simple electrical contact switch rather than capacitive, but feeling/mechanism are similar to Realforce. It also support changing weight by replacing rubber. US ANSI layout is also available. Libertouch is the best feeling switch I've ever used including Realforce/HHKB. I love this but its full lay…

Are any of these still available for purchase? I saw a JP model but like they were discontinued

Re: Why Are Topre Keyboards So Expensive?

#328

Post by pests »

aix1 wrote: post #314
vehemenz wrote: post #216

Topre switches are great! But can someone explain the draw of HHKBs? Aside from nerd street cred, that is. A lot of programmers swear by them, but I don't understand why. Let's talk about the layout. As a Vim user, I need my CapsLock->Esc. Fine, so I'll remap Ctrl—but inexplicably, there are huge gaps where the regular Ctrl keys would be. There are no arrow keys or nav cluster, which means you need to use layers or k…

> There are no arrow keys or nav cluster, which means you need to use layers or key combinations to access them. I have no problem relearning how to use my keyboard, but dedicated keys are still faster and easier. "Easier" is subjective and so I won't address it. As to "faster", I have ♢+{🄸,🄹,🄺,🄻} mapped to {up,left,down,right} making them much quicker to access than reaching for a dedicated cluster of arrow keys…

Is typing speed really a limiting factor for our job?

I could put my toilet in my bedroom, would make waking up to piss much quicker, but each room has a purpose and a mood.

The ijkl keys are for typing. The navigation cluster is for navigating. Why mix

Re: Why Are Topre Keyboards So Expensive?

#329

Post by mewse »

jolux wrote: post #252
Aloha wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a diehard Model M guy, but it's not a mechanical key switch.

Yes it is, it’s buckling springs.

Some folks like to make a technical argument that no, it's not; the buckling spring on a model m keyboard isn't what actuates the keys on the Model M and similar keyboards; instead, the springs are mounted on top of a fairly traditional keyboard membrane layer, and it's the membrane layer that acts as the "switch".

So there are mechanical components and it mostly feels mechanical, but there's a membrane underneath it all that's what actually triggers the key presses.

It's kind of a pedantic argument, I guess? But they do say that "technically correct is the best kind of correct", so YMMV.

Re: Why Are Topre Keyboards So Expensive?

#330

Post by zerocount »

nicopappl wrote: post #49

I have the privilege of owning a Happy Hacking 2, it has topre keys. I used it for about a year. And I hated it! It's insanely noisy, to the point of distraction. It's so damn loud. But the dealbreaker for me is how heavy and deep the keys are. It's just too much energy and travel time for efficient typing IMO. After long sessions my fingertips felt sore from the blunt damage of pushing down the keys. But I'll recogn…

Why did you keep using it if you hated it?
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