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Chess Grandmaster Kasparov on Mob Mentality and Groupthink

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Re: Chess Grandmaster Kasparov on Mob Mentality and Groupthink

#171

Post by chuckee »

sleepysysadmin wrote: post #169
chuckee wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Which happens because black people are overrepresented when it comes to crime, which happens because they are overrepresented in being poor as dirt. Have you tried to confirm this hypothesis, by for example looking at studies that examine the crime rate by both socioeconomic status and race?

>Have you tried to confirm this hypothesis, by for example looking at studies that examine the crime rate by both socioeconomic status and race? This isn't a hypothesis. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_crime_in_the_United_S...

You seem awfully sure. I was able to find only one study that directly compared crime, race, and income group: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/03/23/poor-...

Unfortunately the metric it uses is whether they were ever incarcerated for any reason. Someone hostile to those results would probably dismiss them as due to police racism.

One could try to use homicide and victim surveys as a mostly objective proxy for all violent crime (very difficult and impossible, respectively, for racist police practices to affect), compare that to the violent crime rate of each racial group, and use any disparity to estimate how racist the police and justice system are being.

But then one would risk getting a result one doesn't like.

Re: Chess Grandmaster Kasparov on Mob Mentality and Groupthink

#172

Post by noelwelsh »

JamesBarney wrote: post #140
noelwelsh wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What, then, do you think is an action that is against freedom of speech? To me these are textbook examples of censorship. Note that I don't think your summary captures the relevant facts. NEA: the issue is not whether it should be funded but how the funds, which were already approved, were allocated. Exhibitions were cancelled after receiving funding due to political pressure, and 4 artists won a court case when thei…

I'm probably missing some context, but I'm not sure what about politician's arguing what artists the NEA should fund is against the 1st amendment. > This was ruled a violation of the First Amendment: https://ncac.org/news/blog/what-you-need-to-know-about-the-a ... It looks like that ruling was just because it was racist, and has since been overturned at the circuit court. Maybe I don't understand something, but the g…

I don't think this is a productive conversation so this is my final response.

NEA: again, what do you think is an action against free speech if not someone organizing action against an art exhibition?

Ruling: I couldn't find anything about the circuit court overturning the ruling. Here is a direct quote from the article, emphasis mine: "After a lengthy trial, Judge Tashima wrote in an interim opinion yesterday, that the Arizona Superintendent’s office violated the First ... Amendment"

Re: Chess Grandmaster Kasparov on Mob Mentality and Groupthink

#173

Post by LudwigNagasena »

PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #120
LudwigNagasena wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s funny how you cannot criticize anything anymore because whatever you say it gets interpreted as a right-wing neonazi dogwhistle.

Yes, that is pretty funny, given that TFA is an article criticizing cancel culture itself , and that HN and an almost uncountable number of other media forms are full of actual criticism of all manner of things.

Yes, and whenever anything like that comes up someone always comes and says how it is a dog whistle and what you really want to say is that you hate women and minorities and just want to perpetuate patriarchy and capitalism and you are just evil.

But, yea, HN is quite countercultural in that regard. It is not as bad as at other places where such attitude is more prevalent.

Re: Chess Grandmaster Kasparov on Mob Mentality and Groupthink

#174

Post by jfengel »

thereddaikon wrote: post #103
civilized wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The challenge with this debate is that the meaning of "cancel culture" is too broad, verging on incoherent. Examples of "cancellation" range from people who experienced harsh consequences for minimal or imaginary "offenses", like Justine Sacco and Donald McNeil, to powerful serial sex offenders like Harvey Weinstein.

I think that most of these debates even exist at all because there is little to no agreement on these things. The current climate for social and political discourse does not allow for much nuance. That means individuals with what are actually different ideologies and belief systems get forced together into the same group. So many current issues are portrayed as having only two sides and you can only be totally on one…

As with all history, it never repeats, but it rhymes.

People have always stood up to abuses that were previously hidden. They have always been dismissed as not real problems. A few have always been selfish, and have always been portrayed as if they were the true reason for the movement.

This Time It's Different because of the Internet, enabling more people to talk about it, more people to spread misinformation, more people to say stupid things, and generally creating more heat than light at a vaster scale. Everybody involved adapts their tactics to that. But the core issues are identical.

Re: Chess Grandmaster Kasparov on Mob Mentality and Groupthink

#175

Post by PaulDavisThe1st »

LudwigNagasena wrote: post #173
PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, that is pretty funny, given that TFA is an article criticizing cancel culture itself , and that HN and an almost uncountable number of other media forms are full of actual criticism of all manner of things.

Yes, and whenever anything like that comes up someone always comes and says how it is a dog whistle and what you really want to say is that you hate women and minorities and just want to perpetuate patriarchy and capitalism and you are just evil. But, yea, HN is quite countercultural in that regard. It is not as bad as at other places where such attitude is more prevalent.

So you have to deal with people who don't like what you have to say, and criticize you in a way that you don't like or agree with.

Life is hard. This stuff happens, and if it doesn't, it's probably not a society any us would want to live in for long, since at some point we'll be the group being "nasty" to someone else.

Re: Chess Grandmaster Kasparov on Mob Mentality and Groupthink

#176

Post by javajosh »

sleepysysadmin wrote: post #168
javajosh wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

BLM's problem[1] is that it's a national movement about local problems. It's city cops, not the FBI, that kill people with impunity. The presidential election is generally not the right place to take action, IMHO [2]. In any event, it seems to me that BLM should focus on police money, and ways to put that money in the hands of people who feel that killing unarmed civilians is wrong, the militarization of the police i…

>BLM's problem[1] is that it's a national movement about local problems. It's city cops, not the FBI, that kill people with impunity. The presidential election is generally not the right place to take action, IMHO [2]. and there are some cities which have done some minimalist attempts to help the situation. I think though it's not a per-state thing. So federal I guess is appropriate but yes so divided from the actual…

What I said is not "defunding the police", it's making sure that the people in charge of the money share my (our?) values. We do NOT want cops, judges, or wardens who dehumanize the poor, the black, the accused, or the convicted. Moreover, we do NOT want someone who can't accept the reality of bad cops, systematically bad police departments and justice systems, and who insist that everything is fine. Because obviously it's not.

But you have to give that person power, and that means control of the money. The police chief, sheriff, and mayor are great places to start, but at the legislative level you've got to start funding and testing other approaches.

Re: Chess Grandmaster Kasparov on Mob Mentality and Groupthink

#177

Post by ritchiea »

powersnail wrote: post #96
ritchiea wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tangential but it’s always amusing to me to see Kasparov mentioned as a “chess grandmaster” when there are over 1000 grandmasters while Kasparov was the longest reigning world champion & widely considered the best ever. It’s like having Zuckerberg on your panel and making his title “Entrepreneur”.

It’s an established, commonly used title, kinda like Doctor. Entrepreneur not a title, only a name of an occupation. Nobody really calls anybody “Entrepreneur Smith”.

"World champion" is also a bit of a title.

Re: Chess Grandmaster Kasparov on Mob Mentality and Groupthink

#178

Post by raxi »

blub wrote: post #163
dandotway wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

archive.ph is one of the archive.today domains. I got the archive.ph link using the archive.today Chrome extension. By "child nudity" do you mean illegal child sex abuse materials? If yes, might want to notify the archive.today maintainers that their archive is being illegally misused. I'm afraid to investigate your claim and try clicking any links in case there really is illegal kiddie content.

If I keep running the search several times in a row, sometimes I get results about escorts, nudity (not clear if illegal just by the DDG small text blurb), etc. and the other times I get normal news. DDG likely has an issue with this website, but I won’t investigate this further either.

likely people used to search "site:archive.ph something weird" just before you. Isn't that what privacy-oriented search engines are for?

Re: Chess Grandmaster Kasparov on Mob Mentality and Groupthink

#180

Post by dnissley »

QuotedForTruth wrote: post #139
krinchan wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not OP but I listened to the debate. Said “anti-woke” side argued well that the vein of cancel culture that oversteps and ruins the lives of people just living pay check to pay check and posting bad takes on Twitter on their 15 minute bathroom break is toxic. Meanwhile, it’s ineffective against the people who the movement claims to be targeting. They’re right, in my humble opinion. However, I vehemently disagree that…

> They didn’t really acknowledge that the majority of cancels are just normal people who post stupid Tweets that then lose their jobs and get radicalized. Can you provide any examples of this? I found myself agreeing with the against side because I really don’t see this happening.

A little late here, but here's a list I keep. These aren't strictly normal people, but I do consider all of their "cancellations" terribly wrongheaded:

- Keith John Sampson (11/2007)

- Adria Richards (3/2013)

- Justine Sacco (12/2013)

- Nicholas & Erika Christakis (5/2016)

- Justine Schwarz (2/2017)

- Bret Weinstein (5/2017)

- James Damore (8/2017)

- Ben Frisch (3/2018)

- Jonathan Friedland (6/2018)

- No Winegard (3/2020)

- Colin Wright (4/2020)

- David Shor (5/2020)

- Emmanuel Cafferty (6/2020)

- Gordon Klein (6/2020)

- Stephen Hsu (6/2020)

- Elisa Parrett (6/2020)

- Norman C. Wang (8/2020)

- Will Wilkinson (1/2021)

- Lauren Wolfe (1/2021)

- Chris Harrison (2/2021)

- Donald Mcneil (2/2021)

- Alexi McCammond (3/2021)

- Sandra Sellers (3/2021)

- Paul Rossi (4/2021)

- Ryan Singer (4/2021)

- Antonio Garcia Martinez (5/2021)

- Emily Wilder (5/2021)

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