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I would like closure, but I'll take honesty

freddiedeboer.substack.com

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Re: I would like closure, but I'll take honesty

#101

Post by kayodelycaon »

tptacek wrote: post #59
spadros wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would agree that any description of his misconduct not including reference to his literal bipolar manic state to be not painting the true picture. If we swapped “bipolar” for “schizophrenic” would you have the same opinion?

I don't have to consider that counterfactual, since deBoer himself stated clearly that he knew the accusations he was making were false at the time he made them.

You're making the assumption that him knowing they were false meant he had a choice in saying them.

When it comes to psychosis, your knowledge and your actions can become completely disconnected. For my manic episodes, I'm fully conscious and aware of what I'm doing, with no ability to stop what I'm doing. I'm in the passenger seat of a car driving off the cliff.

Re: I would like closure, but I'll take honesty

#102

Post by newbie789 »

unreal37 wrote: post #84
newbie789 wrote: post #76

This is genuinely hilarious, like truly and deeply funny. I’m not familiar with this guy or the 2017 incident but based off of a cursory Google it looks like he’s kind of famous for having ~ edgy opinions ~ about race and intelligence. It’s entirely likely that people dislike him for this reason and not because of some old tweets. This piece is some amazing performative bullshit that somehow accuses anybody that disl…

You go from being "not familiar" with the guy to having a deep "no possible other explanation" opinion really quick.

Ah yes, I can’t have an opinion on the race science guy unless I read all of his writing about race science. Clearly, I hate the mentally ill, because this guy is entitled to my attention and I’m obligated to read his opinions about race science.

Re: I would like closure, but I'll take honesty

#103

Post by bhelkey »

syspec wrote: post #32

So what did he do wrong? I couldn't tell from the article, it only hinted that he did something wrong but did not disclose what it was "In August of 2017 I made totally baseless accusations of sexual misconduct against the writer Malcolm Harris on social media. " Can anyone provide more (specific) context

> I couldn't tell from the article, it only hinted that he did something wrong but did not disclose what it was

I also have zero background knowledge here. Maybe this article just doesn't target us.

In a stand alone 2.5K word article I would expect more than 20 words detailing the transgression.

It's fine to write articles that require knowledge of a controversy. Though, in such cases, I won't have much to say if I don't have that prior knowledge. It does seems a bit odd to have such an article hit the front page.

Re: I would like closure, but I'll take honesty

#104

Post by weeblewobble »

Veen wrote: post #61
weeblewobble wrote: post #37

For context, here's Freddie's contemporaneous apology, which he has not only deleted from his website but from the Wayback Machine as well (sorry for the weird site, only copy I could find): https://www.falserapetimeline.org/false-rape-5950.pdf Some excerpts: "Crucially, despite my mental state at the time, I knew when I sent those tweets that they were untrue. I am responsible for having made those false allegations…

> Would be nice if Freddie and his IDW friends You're wide of the mark there. De Boer was never part of the IDW. He might criticize some of the things they do, but he's coming from a different starting point entirely.

Fair enough, maybe anti-PC is a better label?

Re: I would like closure, but I'll take honesty

#105

Post by zajio1am »

beebmam wrote: post #27

Certainly I'd like to think there's a special place in hell for those who accuse innocent people of sexual abuse; there's not much worse that one can be accused of. Mental illness or not, there's no excuse for these kinds of false accusations. It's certainly understandable given Freddie's condition. But us understanding why it happened doesn't ethically justify their actions, and it also doesn't relieve the perpetrat…

> I don't want them to have any sort of public social power, given their capability to totally ruin an innocent person's life

Who are ones that ruin an innncent person's live? It is one who falsely accused, or those who immediatey accept such accusations instead of wait for result of investigation?

In some sense people of sound mind who uncritically accept such accusation and act on that have more responsibility for their actions than a person who did the false accusation during a psychotic break.

Re: I would like closure, but I'll take honesty

#106

Post by kjs3 »

But I do hope people will think deeply, about the nature of forgiveness in our current culture, about mental illness, and about a disorder I did not choose and which has resulted in me setting my life on fire more times than I can count.

I've been on the receiving end of someone with mental health issues slagging me undeservedly who at some point got the help they needed. And part of that was asking 'forgiveness' from those they'd wronged. When they asked me I had to 'think deeply' about it and in the end I couldn't simply say "sure, we're good". Because the mental health thing might have been the 'reason' or 'excuse', possibly even 'mitigation', but it doesn't in any way fix the damage done. It doesn't fix a damaged reputation. It doesn't change the opinions of the people you convinced I'm a bad person in one of your 'episodes'. This whole thing reads like "Hey...I know I burned down your house, killed your dog and stole your car and I own that...but I was going through a rough patch and you're a bad person if you don't just let it go. Oh...and never tell anyone about the arson, theft and the rest, because, you know, couldn't help myself and if you do you're the bad person".

I do want to be sympathetic to someone whose done wrong, has gotten help, and wants to own past transgressions. We all have things we should atone for. I just don't think that's what this article is really asking for.

Re: I would like closure, but I'll take honesty

#107

Post by quanto »

I don't presume to fully understand someone's inner struggles through a mere article online. Nevertheless, my condolences.

What I find curious is the trend to isolate some condition and how it is not part of some self-defined 'normal me,' thereby abating the guilt for the whole of 'me'. Unfortunately, in my view, mental conditions like this are very much part of a person (that's precisely why it is so difficult to get rid of such conditions) and thus there is no reduction of said guilt for the 'me'.

I recall the age-old defense of abusive behaviors: "it's the hormones, not me." No. Those hormones are very much part of you. And they are your moral and physical responsibility.

Nevertheless, my intellectual model of what constitutes a self does not preclude me from extending my sympathy and condolences to the author. I wish him embrace and tame the inner demon. I wish him peace.

Re: I would like closure, but I'll take honesty

#108

Post by zepto »

watwut wrote: post #81
unreal37 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, "To those of you who are not people I harmed in my psychotic episode in August 2017… what is it you think I owe you?" There seems to be this tendency that people who only learned about something 5 minutes ago get outrage and demand retribution. Like it's a reflex. The mob has vigilante tendencies. Let's go write an email to someone's employer and demand that they fire them. Millions of people band together and…

The original victim seems to be pissed on author for making himself victim now and for not going away from his life as he promised. Some of the angry people have been there whole time and are actually the ones having to deal with it.

Is DeBoer ‘making himself the victim’?

It looks to me as though he is a victim of a bunch of social vigilantes who have nothing to do with the original situation.

The ‘original victim’ would be better off if these vigilantes weren’t involving themselves in the situation.

Re: I would like closure, but I'll take honesty

#110

Post by zepto »

tptacek wrote: post #11

It is not, in fact, "unambiguously a lie" to relate to others deBoer's grave (and admitted, and unambiguously real) misconduct without the full context of his mental illness. People are entitled to form their own opinions about deBoer's credibility, and he is not entitled to set conditions on how they do that.

A lie of omission is still a lie.
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