Live data from Hacker News

I would like closure, but I'll take honesty

freddiedeboer.substack.com

71–80 of 211 posts

Re: I would like closure, but I'll take honesty

#71
post #7

> But in fact I had not intended to cancel Harris; I hadn’t intended anything at all. I would have attacked him, physically, had he been present, over a pure delusion, which I say with shame I can’t put into words. But I was not thinking that I would hurt his reputation. I was not thinking of cause and effect in any conventional way. I was not in a mental state where I was capable of understanding long-term consequen…

> To what extent are social media increasing the severity of mental health issues themselves?

As an analogy, I consider photosensitive epilepsy. It is unlikely that the genetic cause of epilepsy is somehow a recent mutation; we can assume that an average human a thousand years ago would have been approximately as susceptible as a human today. But for nearly the full history of humanity it would have been relatively rare for someone to suffer an episode of photosensitive epilepsy, because of the lack of environmental triggers. It's not impossible for a flame from a fire or a candle to trigger an episode, but the irregular frequency of the flickering flame means the risk is much lower. It wasn't until electric lighting, and later television, that the environment was suddenly primed to interact with a condition that had quietly existed in humanity for untold ages. To some degree, the modern prevalence of photosensitive epilepsy was a direct result of technology.

So it may be with social media. I wonder if there was some predisposition to madness that had lain dormant in human brains for thousands of years, and is only now coming to the fore as a direct result of the environment that we have created with our technological advancements.

Re: I would like closure, but I'll take honesty

#72
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know, if you hear about the accounts of the parents of children killed in Sandy Hook, I don't think inner peace was available. Many had to move or go into hiding. Imagine, after losing a child in such a horrific way, that you also need to somehow start an entirely new life in a strange place because strangers think you're a crisis actor and threaten your life. Externalities matter.

Nobody is arguing that externalities don't matter. You have to respond to events that happen in your life. Inner peace is whether those families can come to terms with what happened and be happy, or whether they will live in emotional turmoil forever.

I think it's extremely hard to come to terms with what happened and be happy, if what happened (or rather, what is happening) is "I'm currently being chased out of my own home because people online want me dead because my child was gunned down in a domestic terrorist attack".

Re: I would like closure, but I'll take honesty

#73
post #33

> I have asked that people consider that I deserve neither total condemnation nor total exoneration. This. In a lot of circles I move there is a tendency to "total condemnation". We can be better to each other. When we do not deserve it is when we need it the most. Peace, love, respect foster peace, love and respect. "Total condemnation" might make the condemner have some temporary good feelings, but does no good for…

> This. In a lot of circles I move there is a tendency to "total condemnation". Which, ironically feels more like a bipolar approach to resolving a problem. Are they good , or are they bad ? Is it legal , or is it illegal ? Are they right , or are they wrong ? Do we punish , or do we praise ? There seems to be this strange generalized assumption that people are bipolar, and they are the problem. Completely ignoring t…

Nuance requires more attention and brainspace than most people have for someone they are only tangentially aware of like a NYT author. Such casual thought only leaves room for binary yes-or-no questions.

Is Freddie DeBoer still worthy of condemnation?

As an uninvolved party, I think the wisest answer for me to give is: Meh ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.

Re: I would like closure, but I'll take honesty

#74
post #27

Certainly I'd like to think there's a special place in hell for those who accuse innocent people of sexual abuse; there's not much worse that one can be accused of. Mental illness or not, there's no excuse for these kinds of false accusations. It's certainly understandable given Freddie's condition. But us understanding why it happened doesn't ethically justify their actions, and it also doesn't relieve the perpetrat…

I sincerely hope that you never find yourself having harmed someone as a result of a mental illness.

> What I'd like is to simply not hear from this person in public again

You're perfectly free to wear headphones in public, and stop reading anything authored by them.

>Get a job, like most of the rest of us

Nice ableism. Do you understand that severe mental illness can be a disability? Would you tell a person without legs to walk up the stairs like the rest of us?

How nice it must be atop your pedestal.

Re: I would like closure, but I'll take honesty

#75
post #33

> I have asked that people consider that I deserve neither total condemnation nor total exoneration. This. In a lot of circles I move there is a tendency to "total condemnation". We can be better to each other. When we do not deserve it is when we need it the most. Peace, love, respect foster peace, love and respect. "Total condemnation" might make the condemner have some temporary good feelings, but does no good for…

Also, "To those of you who are not people I harmed in my psychotic episode in August 2017… what is it you think I owe you?"

There seems to be this tendency that people who only learned about something 5 minutes ago get outrage and demand retribution. Like it's a reflex.

The mob has vigilante tendencies. Let's go write an email to someone's employer and demand that they fire them. Millions of people band together and demand justice. For what?

Re: I would like closure, but I'll take honesty

#76
This is genuinely hilarious, like truly and deeply funny.

I’m not familiar with this guy or the 2017 incident but based off of a cursory Google it looks like he’s kind of famous for having ~edgy opinions~ about race and intelligence.

It’s entirely likely that people dislike him for this reason and not because of some old tweets. This piece is some amazing performative bullshit that somehow accuses anybody that dislikes him (or doesn’t care to read his writing) of being insensitive to mental health issues. If you don’t like his opinions, you’re actively victimizing everyone with bipolar disorder! There’s no other possible interpretation!

Re: I would like closure, but I'll take honesty

#78
post #33

> I have asked that people consider that I deserve neither total condemnation nor total exoneration. This. In a lot of circles I move there is a tendency to "total condemnation". We can be better to each other. When we do not deserve it is when we need it the most. Peace, love, respect foster peace, love and respect. "Total condemnation" might make the condemner have some temporary good feelings, but does no good for…

People might do good things or bad things, but people aren't good or bad. They're just people. Actions can be good or bad. It's fair to completely condemn the action, not the person. Since you can't get inside someone's head to know their motives, it's dishonest - or at best deluded - to totally condemn anyone. You can't fix a css problem by debugging the server code.

Re: I would like closure, but I'll take honesty

#79
post #71
post #7

> But in fact I had not intended to cancel Harris; I hadn’t intended anything at all. I would have attacked him, physically, had he been present, over a pure delusion, which I say with shame I can’t put into words. But I was not thinking that I would hurt his reputation. I was not thinking of cause and effect in any conventional way. I was not in a mental state where I was capable of understanding long-term consequen…

> To what extent are social media increasing the severity of mental health issues themselves? As an analogy, I consider photosensitive epilepsy. It is unlikely that the genetic cause of epilepsy is somehow a recent mutation; we can assume that an average human a thousand years ago would have been approximately as susceptible as a human today. But for nearly the full history of humanity it would have been relatively r…

There is nothing to suggest that the sort of disorder DeBoer has was not present in the past. The consequences would harsher on everyone and there would be no meds.

Note that he nearly got arrested for unrelated conduct. It was not social media issue.

Re: I would like closure, but I'll take honesty

#80

For context, here's Freddie's contemporaneous apology, which he has not only deleted from his website but from the Wayback Machine as well (sorry for the weird site, only copy I could find): https://www.falserapetimeline.org/false-rape-5950.pdf Some excerpts: "Crucially, despite my mental state at the time, I knew when I sent those tweets that they were untrue. I am responsible for having made those false allegations…

I love deBoers writing when it's about _something_, but the navel-gazing gets old really quick. Yikes!

If he truly feels sorry, he just needs to move on. He seems to understand what he did was foul. Well then, move forward, be a good man to all the new people in your life. Instead, he craves absolution (and, reading between the lines, acceptance). No human being can be cajoled into extending that. It's truly foolish to expect people can be argued into extending that.

In fact, what he really needs to do, is that he himself needs to forgive the people being mean to him, who have rejected him. When he can do that, only then he can free himself from this burden.

Good luck Freddie!

Post reply on HN