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Chess Grandmaster Kasparov on Mob Mentality and Groupthink

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Re: Chess Grandmaster Kasparov on Mob Mentality and Groupthink

#71

Post by amalcon »

javajosh wrote: post #35
fishtoaster wrote: post #13

If you want to hear more of his view, including some solid rebuttals, I highly recommend IntelligenceSquared, a debate series that gets published as a podcast. They cover motions from culture to science to politics across the spectrum and usually get excellent, well-informed debaters on both sides. Their most recent one was "Cancel Culture is Toxic"[0] and Kasparov was arguing in favor of the motion. While I ultimate…

You felt the anti-woke side made the stronger case, but you still disagree? Can you add some more detail here?

Assuming you're a tech person, have you ever observed a debate between two non-tech people on a tech-adjacent topic (say, responsible disclosure or net neutrality)? It's quite easy for this to happen if you went in agreeing with one side, and that side omits what you consider to be important arguments.

Re: Chess Grandmaster Kasparov on Mob Mentality and Groupthink

#72

Post by amalcon »

fishtoaster wrote: post #13

If you want to hear more of his view, including some solid rebuttals, I highly recommend IntelligenceSquared, a debate series that gets published as a podcast. They cover motions from culture to science to politics across the spectrum and usually get excellent, well-informed debaters on both sides. Their most recent one was "Cancel Culture is Toxic"[0] and Kasparov was arguing in favor of the motion. While I ultimate…

Second the recommendation for the series. They have some misses, mostly of the sort where everyone seems to talk past each other, but I learn something from most episodes.

Re: Chess Grandmaster Kasparov on Mob Mentality and Groupthink

#73

Post by salt-thrower »

acheron wrote: post #44
rileymat2 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not sure this generalization holds up, as the Religious Right, in particular, has a history of boycotts in attempt to “cancel.”

It's also not 1988 anymore, so the "Religious Right" is about as relevant as the Free Silver movement.

The point is not who's currently relevant, it's that people on the cultural Right complaining about cancel culture are on par with a schoolyard bully complaining about someone else bullying them. They are happy to do it when their opinions hold sway; when they can't, they whine about other people doing it.

And to be clear, I'm not taking a "both sides are equally bad" stance, I'm just describing the hypocrisy of this particular line of complaining.

Re: Chess Grandmaster Kasparov on Mob Mentality and Groupthink

#74

Post by jedmeyers »

drewcoo wrote: post #65
glangdale wrote: post #17

> Schools are being pressured to remove books and cancel professors for spreading the “wrong” ideas. These sentiments are all too familiar to me, and to anyone who has survived life in a dictatorship. The only answer is more freedom, more speech, not less. This is a good sentiment, but it's worth noting that the overwhelming majority of pressure to "cancel" books and academics is directed at the left by the right, re…

The American "left" is soft right wing. These disputes are the right squabbling with the other right. Much of the silencing of the hard right, for "decorum" and such, is not recognized as censure by the soft right. At least the hard right is honest about banning speech. Because all of the focus is on soft and hard right wing cancellation, anything actually on the left is seen as extremist. Extremist speech can be sil…

> The American "left" is soft right wing.

If by being "right wing" you mean strong authoritarianism and Mussolini-like fascism, then yes, American 'left' is right wing.

However, if right wing for you are conservative values, like family, independence, free speech, personal responsibility, and "judging by the content of the character, not the color of the skin" then American left is nowhere near the soft right position on any of those things. They are not even close to center.

Re: Chess Grandmaster Kasparov on Mob Mentality and Groupthink

#75

Post by amusedcyclist »

blub wrote: post #30
salt-thrower wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, the Right complains about cancel culture while also trying to cancel any book or curriculum that accurately describes the history of racism in America. They are well-practiced at suppressing school materials that make them uncomfortable, and they've been doing it for decades. (And no, I'm not talking about Critical Race Theory; they have been suppressing even the most basic topics around race for a long time).…

Trying and failing. While on the other hand any dumbass with a twitter account can topple CEOs, established professionals, politicians, etc.

The anti CRT stuff just won the republicans an election in Virginia, what are your examples of random twitter accounts toppling CEOs?

Re: Chess Grandmaster Kasparov on Mob Mentality and Groupthink

#76

Post by noelwelsh »

JauntyHatAngle wrote: post #63
systemvoltage wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You may be right about one instance, but I've never seen anything but pro-freedom of speech from the right. Leftism in colleges and academia is so rotten beyond belief. I am down with History of Racism, naked and in all its gory details. But, let's not confuse that with how fusion of Big Tech with Big Gov to move more and more towards totalitarianism - we've seen this happen in Australia in the name of COVID. Vast ma…

Mate, you literally linked Australian legislation that was passed by the "Right" party in Australia. They are just called the Liberals, but they are Economic Liberals, not social, and are considered our "right wing" party with an evangelical Christian as our Prime Minister.

Exactly. And on "Vast majority of this is a push from Left, not the Right" here's the Green Party (probably the most left Australian party of any size) opposing it: https://lidia-thorpe.greensmps.org.au/articles/more-police-p...

Re: Chess Grandmaster Kasparov on Mob Mentality and Groupthink

#77

Post by amusedcyclist »

oh_sigh wrote: post #24
glangdale wrote: post #17

> Schools are being pressured to remove books and cancel professors for spreading the “wrong” ideas. These sentiments are all too familiar to me, and to anyone who has survived life in a dictatorship. The only answer is more freedom, more speech, not less. This is a good sentiment, but it's worth noting that the overwhelming majority of pressure to "cancel" books and academics is directed at the left by the right, re…

Is it? Anecdotally, I see a lot of news about conservatives trying to "cancel" books in their kids libraries whose topics they don't like, but regarding professors, it seems like those getting cancelled are getting cancelled by the left, not the right.

Has any professor gotten fired for their views ? The worst thats happened is some people getting disinvited from conferences, hardly seems like censorship, just editorial disagreement

Re: Chess Grandmaster Kasparov on Mob Mentality and Groupthink

#79

Post by glangdale »

glangdale wrote: post #17

> Schools are being pressured to remove books and cancel professors for spreading the “wrong” ideas. These sentiments are all too familiar to me, and to anyone who has survived life in a dictatorship. The only answer is more freedom, more speech, not less. This is a good sentiment, but it's worth noting that the overwhelming majority of pressure to "cancel" books and academics is directed at the left by the right, re…

Some more examples: https://www.salon.com/2021/05/01/conservatives-claim-to-hate...

A right-wing think tank with strong influence on Idaho legislators produces this gem of a report:

'The report doesn't just call for eliminating individual courses, however. It calls for the elimination of five whole departments — Gender Studies, Sociology, Global Studies, Social Work and History — that it claims are infused with "social justice" ideology. (A sixth blacklisted department has since been added: Criminal Justice.) Eight other departments (later updated to nine) are on a watch list of sorts, judged to be "social justice in training."'

Re: Chess Grandmaster Kasparov on Mob Mentality and Groupthink

#80

Post by LudwigNagasena »

downWidOutaFite wrote: post #68
lhorie wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's interesting phenomenon on its own that Kasparov is taking a fairly centrist stance here through a careful choice of words (cancelling books getting tends to be done by one side and cancelling professors is often done by the other side) and specifically calling out to promote more freedom regardless of what side you're on, but here in the comments people are looking at it from a bipartisan blame-shifting…

"Cancel culture" is a recent term invented by the right as a pejorative for the left, so if you're going to use that loaded term you're signaling which side of the partisan divide you are on.

It’s funny how you cannot criticize anything anymore because whatever you say it gets interpreted as a right-wing neonazi dogwhistle.
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