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Chess Grandmaster Kasparov on Mob Mentality and Groupthink

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Re: Chess Grandmaster Kasparov on Mob Mentality and Groupthink

#41

Post by cool_dude85 »

systemvoltage wrote: post #37
glangdale wrote: post #17

> Schools are being pressured to remove books and cancel professors for spreading the “wrong” ideas. These sentiments are all too familiar to me, and to anyone who has survived life in a dictatorship. The only answer is more freedom, more speech, not less. This is a good sentiment, but it's worth noting that the overwhelming majority of pressure to "cancel" books and academics is directed at the left by the right, re…

You may be right about one instance, but I've never seen anything but pro-freedom of speech from the right. Leftism in colleges and academia is so rotten beyond belief. I am down with History of Racism, naked and in all its gory details. But, let's not confuse that with how fusion of Big Tech with Big Gov to move more and more towards totalitarianism - we've seen this happen in Australia in the name of COVID. Vast ma…

Look at Bari Weiss, who started a right wing free speech university and cut her teeth trying to get her professors fired in college for supporting Palestine.

Re: Chess Grandmaster Kasparov on Mob Mentality and Groupthink

#42

Post by lhorie »

glangdale wrote: post #17

> Schools are being pressured to remove books and cancel professors for spreading the “wrong” ideas. These sentiments are all too familiar to me, and to anyone who has survived life in a dictatorship. The only answer is more freedom, more speech, not less. This is a good sentiment, but it's worth noting that the overwhelming majority of pressure to "cancel" books and academics is directed at the left by the right, re…

I think it's interesting phenomenon on its own that Kasparov is taking a fairly centrist stance here through a careful choice of words (cancelling books getting tends to be done by one side and cancelling professors is often done by the other side) and specifically calling out to promote more freedom regardless of what side you're on, but here in the comments people are looking at it from a bipartisan blame-shifting perspective.

The parallel to my immediate life that comes to mind is when my kids are bickering about some inconsequential triviality and I say "I don't care who started it, I only care that you stop fighting". It must surely be an "important" topic for them that they feel the need to argue about it, but in the grander scheme of things, the resolution shouldn't come at a cost of a losing a core principle (i.e. aiming for resolution through vengeful means is not a productive course of action).

Re: Chess Grandmaster Kasparov on Mob Mentality and Groupthink

#43

Post by javajosh »

sleepysysadmin wrote: post #20

Gotta love Kasparov. I think he's wrong about black lives matter. He's right that it's a required movement, but he's wrong that it's about power. In fact it's the opposite. https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=2014-10-18%202... black lives matter only exists during the election. And what do they have to show for it? Nothing at all. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Floyd_Justice_in_Polici... https://en.wi…

BLM's problem[1] is that it's a national movement about local problems. It's city cops, not the FBI, that kill people with impunity. The presidential election is generally not the right place to take action, IMHO [2].

In any event, it seems to me that BLM should focus on police money, and ways to put that money in the hands of people who feel that killing unarmed civilians is wrong, the militarization of the police is wrong, and who is willing to peel off some of that money to fund wholly independent police accountability policies, and non-police solutions to community problems (e.g. community intervention, mental health, etc.)

[1] I am highly supportive of BLM, but even more so of the implied general movement toward police accountability. Blacks get it more than the rest of us, but everyone is victimized, regularly, to greater or lesser degrees, by a totally unaccountable police force.

[2] Except in the unlikely event that one of the candidates is overtly racist, approves of violent behavior, and even pardons military and law enforcement personel convicted of murder and torture. Of course, such a candidate would never be a problem in the USA. We're too good for that.)

Re: Chess Grandmaster Kasparov on Mob Mentality and Groupthink

#44

Post by acheron »

rileymat2 wrote: post #40
thoughtstheseus wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The “left” cancels everywhere. The “right” cancels in their own community. Big difference IMO. Pros and cons to both of those approaches but that’s how I see it.

I am not sure this generalization holds up, as the Religious Right, in particular, has a history of boycotts in attempt to “cancel.”

It's also not 1988 anymore, so the "Religious Right" is about as relevant as the Free Silver movement.

Re: Chess Grandmaster Kasparov on Mob Mentality and Groupthink

#45

Post by vishho »

kadoban wrote: post #12
fallingknife wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gawker was not "cancelled.". It was driven to bankruptcy by losing a massive defamation lawsuit. They brought it on themselves.

Seems a lot like it's only "cancelled" if the target is right-wing.

Right-wing cancelation happens, but it is usually reported as a campaign of harassment.

Instead of calling your advertisers to complain about perceived racism, think unsavory stuff like spam and GamerGate threats.

Right canceling grew out of troll and gamer culture. Left canceling SJW grew out of decades-old activism.

It is of similar type: ganging up on someone your group picked as the next victim, robbing them of their safety or speech without a formal and fair judgment.

But left-wing canceling (say, leaving 100 bad reviews on Yelp for a family business of someone going viral for a 10 second out of context clip on Twitter) is way more advanced and sophisticated. 4chan lost gamergate the moment the press focused on the death threats of a few incapable of expressing their autistic rage in an argument.

The left is more savvy. It knows that a single newspaper photo of 3 activists has similar value to a hundred uncovered protests. They know how to wield the taboo of racism as a weapon to avoid critique. They make you remember why their victim deserved it.

Re: Chess Grandmaster Kasparov on Mob Mentality and Groupthink

#46

Post by yesenadam »

systemvoltage wrote: post #37
glangdale wrote: post #17

> Schools are being pressured to remove books and cancel professors for spreading the “wrong” ideas. These sentiments are all too familiar to me, and to anyone who has survived life in a dictatorship. The only answer is more freedom, more speech, not less. This is a good sentiment, but it's worth noting that the overwhelming majority of pressure to "cancel" books and academics is directed at the left by the right, re…

You may be right about one instance, but I've never seen anything but pro-freedom of speech from the right. Leftism in colleges and academia is so rotten beyond belief. I am down with History of Racism, naked and in all its gory details. But, let's not confuse that with how fusion of Big Tech with Big Gov to move more and more towards totalitarianism - we've seen this happen in Australia in the name of COVID. Vast ma…

> how fusion of Big Tech with Big Gov to move more and more towards totalitarianism - we've seen this happen in Australia in the name of COVID

I don't know what you're referring to here, could you give some links? Thanks. (Sydney here)

edit: The link you added is about new laws that seem nothing to do with covid. What's the connection? (And you edited again. Maybe I'll wait until you stop doing that. In general, please reply to comments rather than repeatedly adding to your initial comment!)

Re: Chess Grandmaster Kasparov on Mob Mentality and Groupthink

#47

Post by systemvoltage »

groby_b wrote: post #19
Dma54rhs wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does it have to do with the subject even if he did? He is not writing about nft's?

Goes to critical thinking ability.

What's wrong with NFT's and it feels like incredibly condescending take to call anyone who supports NFTs lacking critical thinking. If someone is lacking critical thinking, you might want to ask that question to yourself.

Re: Chess Grandmaster Kasparov on Mob Mentality and Groupthink

#48

Post by noelwelsh »

systemvoltage wrote: post #37
glangdale wrote: post #17

> Schools are being pressured to remove books and cancel professors for spreading the “wrong” ideas. These sentiments are all too familiar to me, and to anyone who has survived life in a dictatorship. The only answer is more freedom, more speech, not less. This is a good sentiment, but it's worth noting that the overwhelming majority of pressure to "cancel" books and academics is directed at the left by the right, re…

You may be right about one instance, but I've never seen anything but pro-freedom of speech from the right. Leftism in colleges and academia is so rotten beyond belief. I am down with History of Racism, naked and in all its gory details. But, let's not confuse that with how fusion of Big Tech with Big Gov to move more and more towards totalitarianism - we've seen this happen in Australia in the name of COVID. Vast ma…

"I've never seen anything but pro-freedom of speech from the right"

This seems a very naive or disingenuous take. Here are two examples that immediately came to mind:

- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Endowment_for_the_Art... particularly actions against Mapplethorpe

- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedagogy_of_the_Oppressed#Rece... 2006 Arizona State Legislature

Re: Chess Grandmaster Kasparov on Mob Mentality and Groupthink

#49

Post by salt-thrower »

blub wrote: post #29
glangdale wrote: post #17

> Schools are being pressured to remove books and cancel professors for spreading the “wrong” ideas. These sentiments are all too familiar to me, and to anyone who has survived life in a dictatorship. The only answer is more freedom, more speech, not less. This is a good sentiment, but it's worth noting that the overwhelming majority of pressure to "cancel" books and academics is directed at the left by the right, re…

Don’t know about most pressure, but when it comes to succeeding at cancelling, conservatives don’t seem to be able to cancel anything. What or who was cancelled by conservatives in the past let’s say 2-3 years?

If you zoom out you can find many more examples. A bit further back, look at the Right's behavior throughout the Bush years - the Dixie Chicks are a perfect example of someone opposing the Right from within their own culture and being summarily "cancelled" for it.

More recently though, Kathy Griffin hasn't recovered from the Trump's severed head controversy.

I'd also like to point out that the type of cancelling and thought suppression the Right does is much more insidious than the Twitter mob, which has the attention span of about a week. The way the Right targets school boards at the local and State level to suppress any curricula which makes them uncomfortable is a huge, widespread problem. Countless teachers in America are legally forced to teach demonstrably false narratives about racism and slavery, as well as to present evolution and Creationism as "equally valid theories."

Comparing a comedian getting cancelled by the Left on Twitter (which rarely sticks; even Louis CK is doing gigs again) with the systematic miseducation of millions of kids based on demonstrably false narratives by the Right, I'd say the latter is much more harmful.

Re: Chess Grandmaster Kasparov on Mob Mentality and Groupthink

#50

Post by salt-thrower »

kadabra9 wrote: post #38
salt-thrower wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, the Right complains about cancel culture while also trying to cancel any book or curriculum that accurately describes the history of racism in America. They are well-practiced at suppressing school materials that make them uncomfortable, and they've been doing it for decades. (And no, I'm not talking about Critical Race Theory; they have been suppressing even the most basic topics around race for a long time).…

We can and should teach about the history of racism in America. We should not however be telling children to use an “oppression matrix” to group and divide one another by identity, teaching children that if they are white they are automatically racist, or teaching historical fabrications like the 1619 project.

This far predates the modern Critical Race Theory boogieman, which I assume is what you're referencing. It's been going on for decades.
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