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Facebook is bad at moderating in English. In Arabic, it’s a disaster

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Re: Facebook is bad at moderating in English. In Arabic, it’s a disaster

#71

Post by oh_sigh »

GravitasFailure wrote: post #67
oh_sigh wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Malta was conquered by North African Islamic caliphate around ~800AD, and then 200 years later the Normans(yes, those normans weren't just invading England around the year 1000) came in and took it, and then 200 years after that they kicked the Muslims out. By that point the Arabic that the original invaders brought was the common language, and it developed independently from the Arabic spoken in North Africa, slowly…

Gotcha, so it does parallel Sicily pretty closely but I don't think Arabic took hold as a common language quite how it did in Malta, but this is definitely something I need to look into more deeply. Thanks!

That's exactly right...the Arabs also invaded sicily around the same time, but didn't get as much as a foothold as they did on Malta...maybe just because of population sizes, or the fact that mainland Italy down by current day calabria were also speaking the same language as the Sicilians, so there was a reserve for the language to continue on. So Sicilian (the language) has a lot of borrowing from Arabic (as well as greek) instead of being a dialect of arabic.

Re: Facebook is bad at moderating in English. In Arabic, it’s a disaster

#72

Post by aorth »

malka wrote: post #54
l5870uoo9y wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Know the etymology behind "pédale"?

It comes from 'pédé' which is slur for 'pédéraste', which means a man who has sex with other men

Rather, a man who is engaged in an erotic relationship with an adolescent boy.

Re: Facebook is bad at moderating in English. In Arabic, it’s a disaster

#73

Post by dane-pgp »

ben_w wrote: post #16
Jiro wrote: post #3

This is just another case of "police cracks down on Mafia" when it's one section of the Mafia turning in another disfavored section of the Mafia to the police. I've yet to see a recent complaint about inconsistent and discriminatory Facebook censorship say that Facebook should just stop censoring. It's always "Facebook isn't doing enough to censor against the right and in favor of black people and LGBTQ".

I see plenty of right wing politicians and commentators (and also, though not recently, my extremely left wing ex) complaining that it was censoring their political views unfairly. Very recently, I have even seen some call for an end to algorithmic timelines, though ironically I can’t find a link.

Here's an article about the "Filter Bubble Transparency Act" which intends "that internet platforms give users the option to engage with a platform without being manipulated by algorithms driven by user-specific data":

https://www.makeuseof.com/filter-bubble-transparency-act-exp...

Re: Facebook is bad at moderating in English. In Arabic, it’s a disaster

#74

Post by Jiro »

revolvingocelot wrote: post #69
Jiro wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "other families" is Facebook. The crime of the "other families" is censorship. "Turning other families in to the police" is cracking down on Facebook censorship. "Turning other families into the police so they can be the only criminals around" is cracking down on Facebook censorship so they can be censors instead.

> The "other families" is Facebook. The crime of the "other families" is censorship. "Turning other families in to the police" is cracking down on Facebook censorship. "Turning other families into the police so they can be the only criminals around" is cracking down on Facebook censorship so they can be censors instead. So, let's see: >>>>>When one Mafia family turns another one in, When Facebook censorship is cracke…

>The "crime of the other families" being "censorship" elides the reality that Facebook is doing the censorship. I

The whole point of having a media blitz about Facebook censorship is to force a crackdown on Facebook censorship, to ensure that censorship is done as per the wishes of the complainers, rather than as per the wishes of current Facebook.

There is no contradiction between "Facebook is doing the censorship" and "someone else wants to censor Facebook instead".

Re: Facebook is bad at moderating in English. In Arabic, it’s a disaster

#75

Post by Banana699 »

uncomputation wrote: post #45
Banana699 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A charitable interpretation would be to understand the "arabic" as in "The arabic script", that is: the alphabet. This is indeed the written representation of Persian and Urdu. It's a common confusion for some people to conflate a natural language with it's script. Compare with the similar confusion that conflates a programming language with either it's implementation or the snytax used to write it in text files.

It’s not a common confusion at all though. No one would ever confuse Italian for English because they use the same script. It’s only “common” wrt Arabic script languages.

I think your familiarity with the Latin script is coloring your perceptions a bit, I'm an arab and when I was a child I used to classify French, Italian and all languages that use Latin letters as 'English'. Growing up is not what made me realize this is wrong, it's learning English. It's very easy to imagine the other way around.

Re: Facebook is bad at moderating in English. In Arabic, it’s a disaster

#76

Post by revolvingocelot »

Jiro wrote: post #74
revolvingocelot wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The "other families" is Facebook. The crime of the "other families" is censorship. "Turning other families in to the police" is cracking down on Facebook censorship. "Turning other families into the police so they can be the only criminals around" is cracking down on Facebook censorship so they can be censors instead. So, let's see: >>>>>When one Mafia family turns another one in, When Facebook censorship is cracke…

>The "crime of the other families" being "censorship" elides the reality that Facebook is doing the censorship. I The whole point of having a media blitz about Facebook censorship is to force a crackdown on Facebook censorship, to ensure that censorship is done as per the wishes of the complainers, rather than as per the wishes of current Facebook. There is no contradiction between "Facebook is doing the censorship"…

>The whole point of having a media blitz about Facebook censorship is to force a crackdown on Facebook censorship, to ensure that censorship is done as per the wishes of the complainers, rather than as per the wishes of current Facebook.

It's clear that you think that, but you're ignoring what's been written, by me, yourself, and TFA.

"The police", which you've failed to define, seem to me in this flawed analogy to be a sort of avatar of active censorship, called down by various Mafia families. Except in real life, the only reason the police aren't arresting all members of all Mafia families is that they don't know the evidentiary extent of illegal Mafia activities. It is not, as you suggest, that the Mafia can call down the cops upon other Mafia families for whatever reason -- there's got to be some illegal activity that'll hold up in court. Facebook doesn't cave to pressure from groups, or some abstract list of rules, they do whatever they think will look best to observers and... and to a certain group of people.

You suggest that all Mafia families are equally powerful, and push Facebook around. But is there a group from the list that you provided in the root comment, "the right [...] black people and LGBTQ", that is treated differently? One Mafia family has functionally unlimited power, and verifiably censors the two other groups worldwide. Which group is it? In fact, the worldwide censure of one of the "Mafia families", the LGBTQ+ Family, is plainly stated in the article. Can't be them!

Re: Facebook is bad at moderating in English. In Arabic, it’s a disaster

#77

Post by Banana699 »

naturalauction wrote: post #68
treeman79 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I imagine eastern cultures would find Italian and English rather similar.

Pashto, Dari, Italian, and English are all Indo-European languages. Arabic is not. In other words Afghan languages are closer to English than they are to Arabic.

You're conflating two fundamentally different notions of similarity. The similarity among the Indo-European languages are extremely deep linguistic and structural similarities only appreciated by people who study languages and their history for a living, and known by people who are interested in languages and read about them.

The similarity between same-script languages is a superficial geometric symmetry that can be seen by anyone with functioning eyes. Most people are in the second category while not being in the first.

Re: Facebook is bad at moderating in English. In Arabic, it’s a disaster

#78

Post by Ahmed90 »

Can confirm Arabic FB moderation is next to 0

--- my comment from an older relevant post ---- I personally reported 3 posts on different FB pages 1st was a religion extremist guy who says to Iraqi people that they should protest and fight the "other side" of the religion (aka start a new civil war) instead of protesting against the corrupted government.

2nd was a post that was praising the guy who murdered the Danish (Or was he Norwegian?) teacher who mocked Islam, and calling him a hero.

and the 3rd was a post that says "Women education is satanic, women's purpose is marriage". --- end old comment ---

4th report was a friend of mine, he reported a page that post's pictures of underage boys im boxers/underwear and write nasty shit in the post and comments, like an obvious pedo community.

all of these 4 reports was "The post was reviewed, and though it doesn't go against one of our specific Community Standards" and then it explains how to block pages

Re: Facebook is bad at moderating in English. In Arabic, it’s a disaster

#79

Post by 999900000999 »

Banana699 wrote: post #31
josh_fyi wrote: post #13

Why does it say in an article about Arabic, "In Afghanistan, where hate speech is reportedly one of the top 'abuse categories.'..." Arabic is not spoke in Afghanistan. Unfortunately, there is common ignorant generalization that Arabic is the language of Iran, Afghanistan, and other Muslim countries. To those who live there, the distinction is not insignificant. This also casts doubt on the veracity of everything else…

A charitable interpretation would be to understand the "arabic" as in "The arabic script", that is: the alphabet. This is indeed the written representation of Persian and Urdu. It's a common confusion for some people to conflate a natural language with it's script. Compare with the similar confusion that conflates a programming language with either it's implementation or the snytax used to write it in text files.

By this logic Chinese, Japanese, Classical Vietnamese and Classical Korean are all sorta kinda just Chinese.

Aside from being amazingly ignorant ( it can be argued Chinese dialects alone are more diverse than Romance languages) your not going to be able to have a Cantonese speaker moderate a Japanese forum.

That said, why are we realistically expecting Facebook to be able to do all this. The moderation should really occur in your head, if you're reading really hateful things online, maybe stop reading them. It turns into an endless game of whack-a-mole.

There are tons of Reddit threads I've been in where I felt I was being personally attacked, or reading pure hate speech. I stopped using Reddit because it wasn't good for me. To be completely fair to Facebook it's not even possible to moderate their platform to the extent this article imagines.

I think a fair compromise would be to allow Nations to ban or heavily restrict Facebook. And Facebook should comply with that. Hell, a Facebook timeout for all of humanity wouldn't be a bad idea.

Maybe given the week of an election just shut the whole thing down aside from messenger.

Re: Facebook is bad at moderating in English. In Arabic, it’s a disaster

#80

Post by tasogare »

Ahmed90 wrote: post #78

Can confirm Arabic FB moderation is next to 0 --- my comment from an older relevant post ---- I personally reported 3 posts on different FB pages 1st was a religion extremist guy who says to Iraqi people that they should protest and fight the "other side" of the religion (aka start a new civil war) instead of protesting against the corrupted government. 2nd was a post that was praising the guy who murdered the Danish…

> "The post was reviewed, and though it doesn't go against one of our specific Community Standards"

They're not lying, nor they're not doing their job: Facebook is supporting islamist organizations so of course they won't suppress posts spreading that ideology. The same goes for Twitter, which is fine being a platform for Talibans, ISIS and other terrorist groups but which sensor Western politicians at the slightest (perfectly legal) tweet that displease them. Somehow for the wokists in charge, muslims are always oppressed even when firing first, and the white man being the enemy any allies is good for them.

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