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TheNFTbay.org – The Billion Dollar Torrent (All NFT's from Ethereum and Solana)

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Re: TheNFTbay.org – The Billion Dollar Torrent (All NFT's from Ethereum and Solana)

#211

Post by barnabee »

neilalexander wrote: post #129
serverholic wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are put on IPFS which can exist forever.

"can" being the operative word but is very very far from guaranteed. If you wake up one day to find that no IPFS nodes are pinning the content anymore, it is as good as gone.

Unless you or anyone else has a copy of the file, then they can put it back and the URL will be the same. If you own an NFT that points to something on IPFS you probably want to keep a copy of the file lying around to do this if necessary.

There are projects trying to create permanent decentralised, content addressable storage (in some case as layers on top of IPFS), so maybe even that problem will go away.

Re: TheNFTbay.org – The Billion Dollar Torrent (All NFT's from Ethereum and Solana)

#212

Post by c22 »

mythz wrote: post #168
chrisco255 wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with "buying a star" or selling a star is there really is no provenance for it. Your bank account is simply a row in a Cobol database managed by some archaic institution. Your stocks in your Robinhood app are the same. You seem to be demeaning the value of database records when so much of the world economy is merely that.

> Your bank account is simply a row in a Cobol database managed by some archaic institution. My bank is managing my real cash money account, which has real utility that can be used to purchase tangible assets like the property that houses my family. Your NFT is a worthless forgotten entry buried in a DB of a URL pointing to a public image (everyone has access to, but no one else had to trade real money for) that will…

The only difference is the pyramid scheme your bank account is embedded into has been going on a lot longer.

I own my house because I have a piece of paper that says I own it, but really it's because my neighbors choose to acknowledge the "legitimacy" of that paper. If someone else moves into my house while I'm on vacation I can oust them (probably) simply because I have more people "on my side". If enough people choose to acknowledge the legitimacy of NFTs then the scheme will not collapse. You are just making a prediction that people wont choose this, but I think you might be surprised. People attribute value to all sorts of nonsense, especially once they've invested in it themselves.

One day all this will be dust, but today, for a brief moment, some guy can trade his collection of digital monkey pictures for a real life piece of paper saying he owns a house, or a whole bunch of database entries at a crusty old bank. Or, I guess, even "cold hard cash" if he prefers.

Re: TheNFTbay.org – The Billion Dollar Torrent (All NFT's from Ethereum and Solana)

#213

Post by throwaway47292 »

haha damn I missed the boat, I was teaching my daughter about money and NFTs somehow make it easy to explain how crazy the world is, so we uploaded an NFT few days ago

(day 148 of the log) https://github.com/jackdoe/programming-for-kids/blob/master/...

Re: TheNFTbay.org – The Billion Dollar Torrent (All NFT's from Ethereum and Solana)

#214

Post by ASalazarMX »

baseballMan wrote: post #50
cr1895 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yes, you can screenshot the Mona Lisa or print out a signed Mickey Mantle rookie card, but it's not the same thing is it? Obviously not, because those are tangible things. That’s not a valid comparison.

I'm not an NFT fan by any stretch of the imagination but you can buy a reproduction of the Mona Lisa or a fake Mickey Mantle card. https://www.amazon.com/DECORARTS-Leonardo-Davinci-Classic-Re... Obviously, the real mona lisa or the mickey mantle card has value because they were painted by famous artists, or signed by a famous baseball player... But at the end of the day they only have value because someone says they…

The NFT is detached from the actual object it represents, it has perceived value only with the people that accept that it represents some kind of ownership. An NFT of the Mona Lisa would be worthless if anyone could get their own original Mona Lisa, sans NFT, just by asking.

Any object that is post-scarcity (like digital images) is incompatible with the business model of NFTs... except in its circle of believers.

Re: TheNFTbay.org – The Billion Dollar Torrent (All NFT's from Ethereum and Solana)

#215

Post by jordemort »

jordemort wrote: post #176
programmarchy wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The timestamp and signature would disprove your claim, and evidence of your fraud would perpetually exist on the blockchain if someone wanted to hold you accountable.

Sure, if I was foolish enough to do things with a key that could easily linked back to my real identity, and if the buyer was careful enough to check if my reprinted NFT was the "real" one. Would it be accurate to say that, from another perspective, the counterfeit NFTs I issued would stay on the blockchain in perpetuity, with no on-chain indications (aside, of course, from timestamp and key) of their fraudulent natu…

What I'm particularly interested in here is stuff that proposes to use NFTs as avatars or something similar - if I go mint my own counterfeit ape and make it my avatar, are those apps going to happily display that I have "verified ownership" of it? Is there any recourse there aside from every app locking down to an explicitly allowed list of keys from "verified NFT producers," or every app playing whack-a-mole with the keys of known bad actors, or establishing some sort of off-chain database of content hashes and the keys that are supposed to own them?

Re: TheNFTbay.org – The Billion Dollar Torrent (All NFT's from Ethereum and Solana)

#216

Post by Macha »

barnabee wrote: post #207
Macha wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The way to make a business model is to associate copyright ownership with the NFT ownership and then assert those rights by filing DMCA takedowns (and/or lawsuits) everyday to anyone who displays the "art" without paying for the privilege and using the NFT owners original work as the source file. The issue is you need the legal process to tie ownership of the NFT to ownership/transferrable license/whatever of the w…

Contracts are a PITA! If you can write one, once, probably based on a completely standard template and then never talk to a lawyer, sign a transfer of ownership, worry about where that ownership info is stored and updating the information when it changes, etc. because the initial contract deferred all that to the owner of the NFT which can be bought and sold with a couple of clicks, I’d call that a massive improvemen…

You can't escape the contracts though.

What happens in that initial sale? The owner declares that whoever possesses the NFT owns the good? Under laws like the first sale doctrine, they can't prevent the subsequent owner passing the legal ownership seperate to the NFT so ownership of the NFT still means nothing legally.

Well how about they take a leaf out of the software industry book, and instead of selling you ownership of the thing the NFT represents, they sell you a transferrable non-revocable exclusive license that requires in its terms that transfers of the license and transfers of the NFT happen in tandem. Well now the future buyers _are_ dealing with contracts.

Re: TheNFTbay.org – The Billion Dollar Torrent (All NFT's from Ethereum and Solana)

#217

Post by ASalazarMX »

reginold wrote: post #146

If these images were stored on the blockchain, would that make a difference?

None at all, since those "unique" assets can be copied freely because the blockchain is public.

I'm really puzzled about why aren't they publishing a low-res copy of the image, and sending the buyer of the NFT the unpublished high-res version. That way only the buyer (and the artist) would have that file, and by keeping it secret they could make it rare, albeit not necessarily valuable.

Re: TheNFTbay.org – The Billion Dollar Torrent (All NFT's from Ethereum and Solana)

#218

Post by dcolkitt »

mythz wrote: post #134
dcolkitt wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it’s a lot more like the market for luxury goods. Why does a Chanel purse sell for substantially more than a similar quality leather bag from a generic manufacturer? Because of the intangible status market of the Chanel brand. If the Chanel logo combined with artificial scarcity turns a $1000 bag into a $6000 purse, why would we not expect the Chanel logo with the same artificial scarcity to turn a $0 JPEG into a…

> No it’s a lot more like the market for luxury goods. Yep exactly like that, except there's no luxury good, not even a receipt of a luxury good, just a ticket to the directions of an online store that's hosting the same bag of pixels that's given out to everyone who ever cared to come across the same public directions with their browser. There's no respect to be earned from a public digital trail admitting you've tr…

> There's no respect to be earned from a public digital trail admitting you've traded real money for a link to a fake clout badge.

Except there clearly is. At the point where many of the world's most famous athletes, musicians and actors have prominently displayed NFTs that they purchased, then there clearly is real social status associated with them.

You can debate about whether that's unfair, or stupid, or just a fad. But it's pretty clearly undeniable that NFTs today are an indisputable social status market to a not insignificant fraction of the population. The fact that you find that you think it shouldn't be that way doesn't change the way things are.

Re: TheNFTbay.org – The Billion Dollar Torrent (All NFT's from Ethereum and Solana)

#219

Post by djyaz1200 »

Macha wrote: post #216
barnabee wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Contracts are a PITA! If you can write one, once, probably based on a completely standard template and then never talk to a lawyer, sign a transfer of ownership, worry about where that ownership info is stored and updating the information when it changes, etc. because the initial contract deferred all that to the owner of the NFT which can be bought and sold with a couple of clicks, I’d call that a massive improvemen…

You can't escape the contracts though. What happens in that initial sale? The owner declares that whoever possesses the NFT owns the good? Under laws like the first sale doctrine, they can't prevent the subsequent owner passing the legal ownership seperate to the NFT so ownership of the NFT still means nothing legally. Well how about they take a leaf out of the software industry book, and instead of selling you owner…

I agree you can't escape having some contracts but I think the NFT supporters would say that the NFT functions like the deed to a property.

A problem NFT appears to be an attempt to solve is all the parasitic people, organizations and rules that govern the transfer of assets. These lawyers, title clerks, law firms, title companies, auction houses and governments extract significant rent from asset transfer marketplaces. This rent is a cost to market participants but the larger cost is limiting the liquidity and size of the overall market.

Like imagine if the title to a car was an NFT instead of a piece of paper. I think NFT might just be a complete scam but it might have utility in disintermediating markets.

Re: TheNFTbay.org – The Billion Dollar Torrent (All NFT's from Ethereum and Solana)

#220

Post by dcolkitt »

BEEdwards wrote: post #145
dcolkitt wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Half of my Twitter feed is profile pics of NFTs being displayed prominently. In a pre-digital pre-social media world you’re right. But in the modern world where people spend more time socializing online than in meatspace, digital goods become easier to display than physical ones. I think a lot of HN doesn’t get this because they don’t spend much time on social media. But for someone like Steph Curry, putting an ape i…

>Half of my Twitter feed is profile pics of NFTs being displayed prominently. And I could in 30 seconds, find the most expensive nft, copy the image and use that as my profile picture...

And in a day or two, you could find the most expensive old Dutch master sold at Sotheby's and have a perfect digital replication.

Nobody would stop you from hanging it out up in your living room, or even announcing to everyone on social media that it's the original and you're the owner. Nobody would need to, because everyone in the art collecting community would recognize this as super cringe.

People purchase art for social status. What you're describing is the opposite of social status.

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