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Daddy isn’t coming back

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Re: Daddy isn’t coming back

#291

Post by R0b0t1 »

totetsu wrote: post #283
R0b0t1 wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're not talking, in these instances, of someone who is mentally able but with a mobility issue, we are talking about people who will never contribute to society. That's money taken away from you, not some billionaire. That said -- rounding up people and killing them is insane. But failing to test for birth defects and not working to prevent them is also insane. Some ways this thread is going are kind of concerning,…

Could caring for these kind of people have a utility in helping us think about compassion, and our values in a more broad way, that enables not making sub optimal decisions in cases that would have negative returns.. To use this thread as an example .. if we were in a society that was black and white utilitarian about one type of disability, it might lead to that thinking being applied directly and 'naturally' to thi…

Maybe? But there are cases where the answer is either "no" or "it's too expensive." I've interacted with people with very serious mental disabilities and while it's not necessarily a negative experience you can usually tell the parents are lying to themselves when they say they enjoy their life.

If you create a hypothetical where the outcome is bad then I am not surprised the outcome is bad. You need to find something more concrete. I actually gave one: selecting against something nebulous like depression may have deleterious effects on the human germline leading to our own extinction. There's evidence that depression aids in avoiding potentially deadly stressors and increases problem solving ability.

Re: Daddy isn’t coming back

#292

Post by Barrin92 »

sneak wrote: post #266
jolux wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Man, what. Psychiatrists have to commit you if they think you're an immediate danger to yourself. I'm sure shitty ones do it in situations where they shouldn't, but speaking as someone who has actually experienced being suicidal, my psychiatrist was the only person I actually fully trusted to help me get what I needed. Maybe I'm just lucky to have ended up with psychs who will take on more risk to avoid having to com…

Suicide is a human right. Interfering with someone's basic right to self-determination is absolutely despicable, no matter how ill the person is.

someone who suffers from suicidal tendencies as a result of mental illness is in no capacity to make these decisions, they're as incapable of making actual decisions as a minor, probably more so and should be institutionalized.

The right to self-determination derives from an assumption of someone being in a clear state of mind, that's why we have plenty of conditions under which we withdraw that right.

Re: Daddy isn’t coming back

#293

Post by [deleted] »

Barrin92 wrote: post #292
sneak wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Suicide is a human right. Interfering with someone's basic right to self-determination is absolutely despicable, no matter how ill the person is.

someone who suffers from suicidal tendencies as a result of mental illness is in no capacity to make these decisions, they're as incapable of making actual decisions as a minor, probably more so and should be institutionalized. The right to self-determination derives from an assumption of someone being in a clear state of mind, that's why we have plenty of conditions under which we withdraw that right.

[deleted]

Re: Daddy isn’t coming back

#294

Post by [deleted] »

derbOac wrote: post #261
Fr0styMatt88 wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you don't mind me asking, is there anywhere I can read more about this aspect of the system? This comment seems really extreme and it's a perspective I haven't really seen anywhere else.

So speaking as someone who has worked in psychiatry and mental health care, I can say it's basically true. It's not the intent of those working in it, but I think like a lot of things it's sort of what has emerged through the system. I had a colleague, now retired, who was the president of state mental health associations, etc. who made the argument that most suicide treatment programs are really designed to protect…

[deleted]

Re: Daddy isn’t coming back

#295

Post by [deleted] »

macksd wrote: post #255
anm89 wrote: post #180

This is the part where every one piles in posting suicide hotline numbers. I would argue most of those people do not have any experience with, or understanding of those hotlines and it's just a trite thing to throw out to show support like "fuck cancer". You should seriously understand what you are signing yourself up for if you call one of those numbers on yourself or someone else. For one you are volunteering that…

One of the many things needing overhauling in our mental health system. I avoided seeking help for a long time because I was interested in jobs that would likely require government security clearances, and (I don't know how true this is) I had heard from multiple sources that a history of seeking help for mental health issues may disqualify you. Which is a little backwards in practice. If there's an issue I want to a…

[deleted]

Re: Daddy isn’t coming back

#296

Post by [deleted] »

chris_wot wrote: post #205
anm89 wrote: post #180

This is the part where every one piles in posting suicide hotline numbers. I would argue most of those people do not have any experience with, or understanding of those hotlines and it's just a trite thing to throw out to show support like "fuck cancer". You should seriously understand what you are signing yourself up for if you call one of those numbers on yourself or someone else. For one you are volunteering that…

This is precisely what they do. Fun fact: whilst Lifeline in Australia says that they will treat all calls as anonymous, they in fact do not. If you speak about killing yourself to a counsellor, then they will call the police and trace your number, despite whether or not you turned off caller ID. Don't trust phone counselling services. Ever.

[deleted]

Re: Daddy isn’t coming back

#297

Post by anon_nd »

podgaj wrote: post #10

I have schizoaffective bipolar disorder, and aspergers. I was making $130,000 a year as a network engineer at Cisco in 1999 before I became too sick to work anymore. Right now I am homeless living in my van with a transmission about to go. I have attempted suicide three times already. I keep thinking about doing it again. No one wants to provide me the best medicine, stable housing. I make $1700 on disability but I c…

New anon account for obvs reasons...

> My nephew hung himself at 14 years old after a doctor thought he had ADHD and gave him ritalin. It was a misdiagnosis.

I have ADHD and the first to get diagnosed in my family, and now that I'm dealing reasonably well with that, strongly suspect other ASD-related traits: obsessionality, sensory issues, social problems, but these lightly enough that I've been able to make it through life just being a bit "weird" and that's okay because I'm a successful software developer. (Crazy rich guys are just "eccentric", right?)

My father definitely does have many of these too, and if you look back at the family history it's everywhere... from cousins with autism who can't live independently, to back generations with erratic behaviour for which this sort of neural difference is the best explanation.

Now speaking to the quote... my 13 year old has terrible levels of anxiety and depression, and has an ADHD diagnosis. We very briefly tried a stimulant and just as quickly took him off it, whereas they have worked well for me (now, I was also suicidal as a teen.)

Why? He struggles with focus and concentration, which the stimulants should help with, as they do for me. My best guess is that he has a deeper problem in finding life meaningless, a lot of "no point to anything" and "I don't want to live anymore". When he took the stimulants, he was able to focus... but on those thoughts since he had little else he was thinking about and that made the depression and anxiety so much worse. So I can absolutely see how Ritalin could result in suicide. :(

The difference for me was that I knew what I loved, and I knew what I wanted to do with my life, yet I was constantly beset with intrusive thoughts that were telling me I should be doing something "better" with my time. And a fundamentalist religious upbringing had me thinking that was my conscience or God and therefore I should be paying attention to it. But then that almost shrank to nothing as soon as I started the amphetamines.

So I view this as a similar situation to giving antidepressants to sufferers of bipolar and mania; you end up exacerbating the problem.

Re: Daddy isn’t coming back

#298

Post by themacguffinman »

Barrin92 wrote: post #292
sneak wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Suicide is a human right. Interfering with someone's basic right to self-determination is absolutely despicable, no matter how ill the person is.

someone who suffers from suicidal tendencies as a result of mental illness is in no capacity to make these decisions, they're as incapable of making actual decisions as a minor, probably more so and should be institutionalized. The right to self-determination derives from an assumption of someone being in a clear state of mind, that's why we have plenty of conditions under which we withdraw that right.

How wonderfully tautological this is: those with suicidal tendencies are deemed incapable of making the choice due to "mental illness". How can you tell if they're mentally ill? You look for symptoms of course, symptoms like "they have suicidal tendencies".

Re: Daddy isn’t coming back

#299

Post by Iefthandrule »

animal_spirits wrote: post #146
muuglay wrote: post #79

Suicide is a hard topic. My mom did it. I don't talk to my father. I might be autistic or have aspbergers, and I dont understand why I wake up. I'm a robot emulating a human. I have to do weed to grt any mystery of a cosmic connection because we are strange primates. I hate my job which causes a disease of more when even after excelling in a fang job making over seven figures, I feel very little joy. I just have hope…

Do you make art? I don't know how it feels to lose a family member to suicide, but I do remember how it feels to feel nothing. I started making art... In reality I forced myself to make art. Doodling first, then drawing and sketching and more complicated designs. I learned that art is like exercising, but instead of building muscle I was building physical emotions, in a sense. I had to train myself to make something…

What a beautiful depiction of self-exploration. It would be interesting to hear more about how you get yourself to continue digging in such a state of mind.

Re: Daddy isn’t coming back

#300

Post by rubyist5eva »

listless wrote: post #290
rubyist5eva wrote: post #76

As someone that was on medication that made me think about comitting suicide regularly, and I've learned to cope and overcome it somewhat...I thought I could read this...but this was like stepping into another reality where I was gone and this was about me. :S :S. and now I'm sitting at my desk bawling my eyes out...just wanting to hold my son and never let him go.

I can relate. I cried as I read that story too. Hold your son; that sounds like a wonderful idea. I hope you feel better my friend. You’re not alone here.

I had my son right before the pandemic. Caring for my new son during Toronto lockdowns in a tiny apartment was pure hell. He is the one thing keeping me going (and my wonderful wife, of course). My one hope is that we can put COVID-19 behind us soon enough so that he has no real memories of it and can live somewhat of a normal life. I want him to be able to meet people in public and see faces without masks. I want him to play with children his age and make friends in the neighbourhood and have sleepovers and playdates. I want to bring him to the toy store and urban playground without ridiculous rules about distancing. What is "normal" going to be post-COVID-19 even? Questions about the future and overall uncertainty keeps me up at night.

I ended up buying a house in my hometown. I work permanently remote now. It's a healthcare company, so it's very busy, stressful, often chaotic - but it is rewarding work and I feel like I am making my own small difference in the world.

My wife wrote a letter to my son about out life during the pandemic yesterday. We will give it to him one day when he is old enough. It made me think that I should create an email address on my server that is specifically for him and write him letters like this so that he can know what life was like and everything he went through. I just want to do everything I can to do right by him. I pray that he will forgive me for any mistakes I may have made while trying to keep him safe during this pandemic.

It means a lot that HN has been so kind to me. It's hard to find kindness these days. People are afraid, angry, in completed despair...but kindness is what we need. Thank you.

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