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Daddy isn’t coming back

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Re: Daddy isn’t coming back

#261

Post by derbOac »

Fr0styMatt88 wrote: post #193
anm89 wrote: post #180

This is the part where every one piles in posting suicide hotline numbers. I would argue most of those people do not have any experience with, or understanding of those hotlines and it's just a trite thing to throw out to show support like "fuck cancer". You should seriously understand what you are signing yourself up for if you call one of those numbers on yourself or someone else. For one you are volunteering that…

If you don't mind me asking, is there anywhere I can read more about this aspect of the system? This comment seems really extreme and it's a perspective I haven't really seen anywhere else.

So speaking as someone who has worked in psychiatry and mental health care, I can say it's basically true. It's not the intent of those working in it, but I think like a lot of things it's sort of what has emerged through the system.

I had a colleague, now retired, who was the president of state mental health associations, etc. who made the argument that most suicide treatment programs are really designed to protect practitioners and healthcare providers, not the patients. At the time I understood what he was saying, but didn't really understand it until later.

The way it came up with him was more about prediction and risk. He was talking about it because there's basically no way to know if someone is actually imminently suicidal. Most people who talk about it never even make an attempt, and there are lots of people who commit suicide suddenly without saying a word to anyone else ahead of time.

My colleague's point was this: if saying X is totally unpredictive of Y in reality, why react so strongly to saying X? The reason is because it's not really about preventing Y -- you can't -- it's because it legally and morally absolves you of responsibility.

I feel weird writing this because it sounds so cynical, but its a sad truth about the poor state of care of our fellow human beings in contemporary society.

Re: Daddy isn’t coming back

#262

Post by chris_wot »

rackjack wrote: post #216
chris_wot wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are suicidal, don't call a hotline. See a friend, talk to family, but don't consult a professional. Professionals, in many countries, are bound by law to refer you to a psych ward. Even if your state of mind is temporary, you'll be stuck there for days, weeks and sometimes even months. Often, staff are abusive. If you are suicidal, do not call a hotline.

It's 3am, you ring a friend, they don't pick up. You ring home, your parents are asleep. "do NOT call a hotline" you remember. Nobody to talk to. Nobody loves you. Worthless piece of human fucking garbage. Better off dead. Better off dead when the people who "love" you aren't there when you need them. Waste of space, waste of air. A bother. You're just bothering them. The last thing they'll think of you as is a bothe…

I speak from personal experience. What happened to me is quite real.

Don't forget - you are not anonymous when you call these hotlines. Far from it. If you call expecting your anonymity to be honoured, then you are making a grave mistake.

Re: Daddy isn’t coming back

#263

Post by mindslight »

anm89 wrote: post #180

This is the part where every one piles in posting suicide hotline numbers. I would argue most of those people do not have any experience with, or understanding of those hotlines and it's just a trite thing to throw out to show support like "fuck cancer". You should seriously understand what you are signing yourself up for if you call one of those numbers on yourself or someone else. For one you are volunteering that…

Sheesh, that's fucking terrible. I had naively assumed that suicide hotlines would ring to someone who would really listen to you and try to give you some perspective in a non-intrusive manner, which is what I imagine myself needing if I was in that position. Although I guess it's not terribly surprising to hear it's the bog standard pattern of friendly-faced leadgen that passes off execution to a misincentivized backend.

Re: Daddy isn’t coming back

#264

Post by derbOac »

anm89 wrote: post #213
c22 wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with your general sentiment, but speaking as someone who has been in jail and also involuntarily committed on multiple occasions, jail is much much worse. All the downsides you listed apply to jail time also, but the food is more terrible, the environment more restrictive, and the opportunities for extricating yourself (if you are reasonably cogent) are greatly reduced. Also, ironically, being in jail on suic…

Thanks for the perspective. I have never experienced either directly so at best I'm speculating although I've been around many people who have been through both. My basis for making that comment is that at least ostensibly you get due process in the legal system. Hope you came out the other side in a good place.

Having worked in emergency psychiatry services, I can say it's super common for people to wake up or become lucid and immediately think they're in jail.

Re: Daddy isn’t coming back

#265

Post by chris_wot »

kempbellt wrote: post #218
chris_wot wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are suicidal, don't call a hotline. See a friend, talk to family, but don't consult a professional. Professionals, in many countries, are bound by law to refer you to a psych ward. Even if your state of mind is temporary, you'll be stuck there for days, weeks and sometimes even months. Often, staff are abusive. If you are suicidal, do not call a hotline.

> If you are suicidal, do not call a hotline. Everything you said above is true, but this is advice that I feel on the fence about giving. If you call a hotline, it is not unlikely that your life will be disrupted. You may very well be involuntarily committed to a psych ward for days/weeks/months, depending on your mental state. Some psych wards aren't great, but some really aren't all that bad. It may sound scary to…

As someone who was very badly affected by the Australian medical system, let me just say that what happens to you in the system will almost certainly traumatize you as much as the event that led up to it.

It's very easy for someone to say otherwise, unless they have experienced it first hand. Have you?

Re: Daddy isn’t coming back

#266

Post by sneak »

jolux wrote: post #260
anm89 wrote: post #180

This is the part where every one piles in posting suicide hotline numbers. I would argue most of those people do not have any experience with, or understanding of those hotlines and it's just a trite thing to throw out to show support like "fuck cancer". You should seriously understand what you are signing yourself up for if you call one of those numbers on yourself or someone else. For one you are volunteering that…

Man, what. Psychiatrists have to commit you if they think you're an immediate danger to yourself. I'm sure shitty ones do it in situations where they shouldn't, but speaking as someone who has actually experienced being suicidal, my psychiatrist was the only person I actually fully trusted to help me get what I needed. Maybe I'm just lucky to have ended up with psychs who will take on more risk to avoid having to com…

Suicide is a human right. Interfering with someone's basic right to self-determination is absolutely despicable, no matter how ill the person is.

Re: Daddy isn’t coming back

#267

Post by Pet_Ant »

macksd wrote: post #255
anm89 wrote: post #180

This is the part where every one piles in posting suicide hotline numbers. I would argue most of those people do not have any experience with, or understanding of those hotlines and it's just a trite thing to throw out to show support like "fuck cancer". You should seriously understand what you are signing yourself up for if you call one of those numbers on yourself or someone else. For one you are volunteering that…

One of the many things needing overhauling in our mental health system. I avoided seeking help for a long time because I was interested in jobs that would likely require government security clearances, and (I don't know how true this is) I had heard from multiple sources that a history of seeking help for mental health issues may disqualify you. Which is a little backwards in practice. If there's an issue I want to a…

Company resources are next to useless. They are meant to be short term and are encouraged to turn you around in a few sessions. If you can, go private, since it's more open ended and the process of over over the basics of your life story are tedious.

Re: Daddy isn’t coming back

#268

Post by c22 »

GDC7 wrote: post #140
saghm wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Women are still people who can have mental health issues; the solution of "just waiting until you're 40" isn't viable for 50% of the population.

Freezing eggs at 18-22 y/o should be the norm. Especially in rich areas such as LA and NYC. Gives women options. The earlier you freeze them the more you can get with a single procedure

My wife spent over $35k getting her eggs frozen when she was younger and we never even ended up using them (despite waiting till she was 38 to get pregnant). I guess having them around gave her some peace of mind, but that's a hefty price tag for someone in their early 20s, even in a "rich area" ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Re: Daddy isn’t coming back

#269

Post by tapan_jk »

sneak wrote: post #266
jolux wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Man, what. Psychiatrists have to commit you if they think you're an immediate danger to yourself. I'm sure shitty ones do it in situations where they shouldn't, but speaking as someone who has actually experienced being suicidal, my psychiatrist was the only person I actually fully trusted to help me get what I needed. Maybe I'm just lucky to have ended up with psychs who will take on more risk to avoid having to com…

Suicide is a human right. Interfering with someone's basic right to self-determination is absolutely despicable, no matter how ill the person is.

Cannot agree more. Just like many other acts which are punished today, but should be rather dealt with by showing support, self harm should definitely be taken off the list of acts that are treated like a crime. I can only guess, but it feels like the current approach only makes things worse for those who are already suffering.

Re: Daddy isn’t coming back

#270

Post by s1artibartfast »

dragonwriter wrote: post #244
s1artibartfast wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>However, it generates $50 billion relative to the actual state of the world in which there is a cost that large due to suicides. What does that mean? What if I say a life is worth 1 trillion dollars, of 1 google dollars? does that mean that if I save a life the world is 1 trillion dollars richer?

> 1 google dollars Unless this is a fancy way of saying “an amount of money equal to the value of the most well-known unit of Alphabet”, you probably mean “1 googol dollars”.

yup. Thanks
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