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Daddy isn’t coming back

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201–210 of 430 posts

Re: Daddy isn’t coming back

#201
post #24

Statistics also suggest that, singularly among illnesses, people with schizophrenia fare better in the developing world, where the rates of remission are higher. It's because developing countries are low-compliance societies. Humans weren't evolved to live in high-compliance societies and a lot of us don't care for it at all. Some of us get by. Others don't.

Don't necessarily think the distinction is low-compliance vs. high-compliance. Many developing countries are high-compliance, and enact oppressive measures all the time. I think it's low expectations vs. high expectations.

In western society, there are so many expectations placed on every single moment of your life. Everyday at school is important, because you need to get into x, y, and z colleges. Everyday at work is important, because you need to grind to get a promotion so you can get more money and prestige. Having an active social life is important, because you need to mingle with as many people your age as possible so you can find the "one." You also need to spend some time "finding yourself." In your free time, you could be trading crypto, or investing in stocks, or working on a startup. Every moment is critical, and must be used for achieving some over-arching goal of self-actualization to leave your "unique" mark in the world. This isn't necessarily bad, and has led to some fantastic worldly achievements, but when you're going 100 mph all the time, there's no room for the silence required to know yourself. It's like you're spending all this energy trying to create yourself when you're right here all this time, and nothing you've done so far has changed that.

Eastern (developing) societies have no such tension. You do well in school, because that is what will get you a good job, not to change the world. No alumnus is speaking to you saying they're looking at Presidents, astronauts, inventors, etc. Mom or dad can introduce you to someone that they think would be suitable for marriage, and her parents agree because you did the work to get a decent job. Then, you can get married and have kids so that you have someone to care for, and someone to care for you when your parents get too old or pass away. There's never a sense that you need to do something truly new and unique. They are simply happier with less, and don't place undue expectations on their life. There are so many quiet moments in your life where you can be yourself without any expectations. You do not worry about whether the world will remember who you are. You've already done everything that could be expected of you.

I know there are exceptions in both cases, but ultimately people become sad and suicidal when they feel their life isn't worth living. Which society makes it easier to say your life was well lived?

Re: Daddy isn’t coming back

#202
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not how it works in real life. Family (and maybe generous government healthcare) will take care of "too broke" to give any yield, in the future, people. Anyone else who isn't lucky to have that kind of support will find himself in the streets. And that's fine. Societies can only function if the yield from the people it invested in is higher than the investment. This is why socialized healthcare is tricky. If y…

> And that's fine. Societies can only function if the yield from the people it invested in is higher than the investment. This is why socialized healthcare is tricky. If you invest too much, you might be wasting resources and endangering all of your society. If you invest too little, you might be leaving people who would otherwise be productive once the investment is made. This is quite evidently not how most sociali…

>> This is quite evidently not how most socialized healthcare systems work.

This is how socialized healthcare systems work. In an ideal world, everyone would get the healthcare they needed whatever the cost. We live in a world with finite resources. A single payer healthcare system is not free from these constraints.

The British socialized healthcare system for example will allocate up to $25K-$40K to buy a year of healthy life.

> [National Institute for Health and Care Excellence] uses a unit of measurement called the "Qaly" - the "quality-adjusted life year". It gauges drug effectiveness in terms of how much it would cost to give you a year of healthy life.

>[National Institute for Health and Care Excellence] aims to spend less than £20,000 to £30,000 per Qaly. That is not a hard limit; it will go almost twice as high for end-of-life drugs [1]

[1] https://www.bbc.com/news/health-28983924

Re: Daddy isn’t coming back

#203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, your friend in Belgium doesn't appreciate what he has, I come from a small island off the west coast of Scotland, where rain is rather common... You could resent it, or you could install roof windows, a log burner and invest on a decent whisky and have the best possible environment for getting deep into a hardback book that possible exists (possible enhanced by a collie dog laying on your feet). Life is weird. We…

Anyone who can find joy in a glass of whiskey and a terrific hardbook is going to be fine, is what I think, no matter what obstacle, unless they go too hard on the books.

I've been thinking about this a bit lately. In a discussion about the precept on buddhists not to be intoxicated I wrote this:

Hmm, my take on this is maybe a little different -- I don't really think alcohol (or other intoxicants) are really 'THE' problem, when we consider them in the context of a problem. These kinds of things are (at least as far as I see it) a kind of self medication; some people drink a lot as their form of escapism, others read 200 books a year or watch endless mindless TV shows, it's all kind of the same thing in different clothes, it's a retreat from having to deal with something. Years of 'AA' and the American 'War on Drugs' seem to have got into our collective mindset that these symptoms are actually the cause, which I disagree with.

So anyway; I always took this precept as guidance against doing any of those kinds of things which only serve to distract you from whatever it is that's making you unhappy, or to numb yourself to avoid having to think about things. Such evasive behaviour is the truly harmful part and should be avoided.

I think if you do any of those things just for pure recreation, then it is ok.

I mean, I don't think having a small glass of Whisky while reading a good book in-front of the fire with the rain battering on the windows could be too much of a problem, and if it is then I guess it's a problem I'll choose to keep :}

Of course, we are all different.

Gassho. Night night :)

Re: Daddy isn’t coming back

#204
post #180

This is the part where every one piles in posting suicide hotline numbers. I would argue most of those people do not have any experience with, or understanding of those hotlines and it's just a trite thing to throw out to show support like "fuck cancer". You should seriously understand what you are signing yourself up for if you call one of those numbers on yourself or someone else. For one you are volunteering that…

I don't think jail is the other choice.

I was in jail for eight years. I would say a large majority of people are in jail due to various mental health issues.

Re: Daddy isn’t coming back

#205
post #180

This is the part where every one piles in posting suicide hotline numbers. I would argue most of those people do not have any experience with, or understanding of those hotlines and it's just a trite thing to throw out to show support like "fuck cancer". You should seriously understand what you are signing yourself up for if you call one of those numbers on yourself or someone else. For one you are volunteering that…

This is precisely what they do. Fun fact: whilst Lifeline in Australia says that they will treat all calls as anonymous, they in fact do not. If you speak about killing yourself to a counsellor, then they will call the police and trace your number, despite whether or not you turned off caller ID.

Don't trust phone counselling services. Ever.

Re: Daddy isn’t coming back

#206
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meaning it's more acceptable to not comply with cultural standards: i.e. keep standard hours, have a job, not marry/have kids, or whatever else the standards of behavior are. I'm not convinced though that developing countries are actually lower compliance but that's what the OP means.

Clearly, there's a lot of variation inside a country too. I'm thinking urban vs. rural but you can probably point out more specific ways it differs. Maybe it's even possible to think of this on a class level? Certain upper middle class societies being very strict about how you should organize your life to conform.

Small rural communities and the upper echelons of society seem to be closely knit.

My guess is that the relative anonymity of the urban masses affords more opportunities to avoid social opprobrium.

Re: Daddy isn’t coming back

#207
post #9

Knowing that you're at high risk of suicide or have other serious mental health problems is also a good reason to avoid having kids. This isn't directed at the author of the article or their partner; it's how I think when I plan my own life.

I have a long history of suicidal thoughts, and I’ve even acted on them a few times when I was younger (albeit half-heartedly-if I’d been really serious about it I wouldn’t be here now.) I don’t know if that makes me “at high risk of suicide” but likely people like me are at greater risk than people who don’t have that history. And yet, having kids has actually made it easier for me to resist those thoughts. They hav…

This. In fact, even having a pet can provide the same incentives not to harm yourself. The sense of being responsible for another life.

Re: Daddy isn’t coming back

#208

Not a comment on the story itself, but rather on the postscript which follows it: > If you are struggling to cope or have been affected by anything in this story, please contact the Samaritans in the UK at 116 123 or jo@samaritans.org. In the US, the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline is 1-800-273-8255. More information at mind.org.uk, samaritans.org and save.org Years ago, unhappy but not suicidal, I decided to ca…

You were not suicidal. Not passively, definitely not actively. The needs of the actively suicidal are not the same as someone who is unhappy and just calling to check the experience. I don't know if you've ever been around someone who is actively suicidal, but it is a completely different state of mind than normal interactions. What they need is not a connection or a therapy session to talk them down - that comes lat…

I agree.

> Years ago, unhappy but not suicidal, I decided to call a suicide hotline.

They tried to use a tool for a state of mind they were not in, then got surprised that it wasn't helpful.

Re: Daddy isn’t coming back

#209

Not a comment on the story itself, but rather on the postscript which follows it: > If you are struggling to cope or have been affected by anything in this story, please contact the Samaritans in the UK at 116 123 or jo@samaritans.org. In the US, the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline is 1-800-273-8255. More information at mind.org.uk, samaritans.org and save.org Years ago, unhappy but not suicidal, I decided to ca…

You were not suicidal. Not passively, definitely not actively. The needs of the actively suicidal are not the same as someone who is unhappy and just calling to check the experience. I don't know if you've ever been around someone who is actively suicidal, but it is a completely different state of mind than normal interactions. What they need is not a connection or a therapy session to talk them down - that comes lat…

If you are suicidal, don't call a hotline. See a friend, talk to family, but don't consult a professional. Professionals, in many countries, are bound by law to refer you to a psych ward. Even if your state of mind is temporary, you'll be stuck there for days, weeks and sometimes even months. Often, staff are abusive.

If you are suicidal, do not call a hotline.

Re: Daddy isn’t coming back

#210

Not a comment on the story itself, but rather on the postscript which follows it: > If you are struggling to cope or have been affected by anything in this story, please contact the Samaritans in the UK at 116 123 or jo@samaritans.org. In the US, the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline is 1-800-273-8255. More information at mind.org.uk, samaritans.org and save.org Years ago, unhappy but not suicidal, I decided to ca…

You were not suicidal. Not passively, definitely not actively. The needs of the actively suicidal are not the same as someone who is unhappy and just calling to check the experience. I don't know if you've ever been around someone who is actively suicidal, but it is a completely different state of mind than normal interactions. What they need is not a connection or a therapy session to talk them down - that comes lat…

> If you are unhappy, call a therapist. If you are suicidal, call a hotline.

This is very reductive, basic advice. Sounds great, but fails to consider the very real possibility that a suicidal person cannot diagnose themself effectively.

Telling a non-suicidal person to call a hotline isn't the best advice, but accidentally telling a suicidal person to call a therapist is much worse.

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