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Daddy isn’t coming back

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Re: Daddy isn’t coming back

#91

Post by nonbirithm »

Ozzie_osman wrote: post #32
micromacrofoot wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are a lot of mental health issues that make this level of self-awareness and future planning incredibly difficult.

Also social pressure and expectations. How many people would feel comfortable saying "Sorry mom/dad/friend/potential partner, I'm not going to have kids because I'm worried I might not be a good parent or maybe even take my own life"?

It isn't just about pressure. I've told people things like this while not caring about the stigma and it has always negatively affected the relationship, because I'm perceived as acting too vulnerable too soon. As a result, none of my friendships have advanced past a superficial level.

From my experience, it seems there is a good reason for the stigma. Depressed people with pessimistic worldviews don't make good friends. The worst time for me to make friends is when I need other people the most (such as when I'm depressed), but when I don't need people my interest in them becomes almost nil.

Also, I highly empathize with the idea that when the fear of failure can be linked to the risk of one's life spiraling out of control potentially all the way to suicide, whether or not those consequences logically follow, it takes away a lot of options that might sound common-sense to someone of a healthy mind (aiming for challenging side projects, putting yourself in front of others). For such people, I believe shielding yourself from those signals is a valid option for survival, even if it means having to deceive yourself temporarily.

Re: Daddy isn’t coming back

#92

Post by anonporridge »

muuglay wrote: post #53
anonporridge wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps a good reason to keep elevating the socially approved age to reproduce? By the time you're in your 40s, you likely have a good idea of whether or not you're a stable enough mind to commit to the minimum 20 years required to uplift a new human adult.

Not sure our biology is great at that, but paradoxically as an almost 40 year old... I have the resources to support a bunch of children. Maybe the change to make is change the dynamic between men and women to introduce more age differences for child rearing. My parents fought about money all the time, but if they had delayed then they would have been better off. If they were better off then maybe my mom wouldn't hav…

While I agree with you technically, there's something icky about a community full of older, wealthy men talking about how maybe it's actually ideal for older, wealthy men to wife up young, fertile women.

Re: Daddy isn’t coming back

#93

Post by amelius »

SapporoChris wrote: post #3

I have a black thought on this. I would be happy if someone corrected me. When something breaks, sometimes we repair it, sometimes we throw it out. The more valuable the item, the more we will spend to fix it. However even with the most valuable items, we sometimes reluctantly decide that it is broken beyond repair. Are people like this? Are some simply too broken to fix? I feel awful thinking this, but I wonder if t…

Philosophical questions are fine here, I think.

Re: Daddy isn’t coming back

#94

Post by sandgiant »

SapporoChris wrote: post #3

I have a black thought on this. I would be happy if someone corrected me. When something breaks, sometimes we repair it, sometimes we throw it out. The more valuable the item, the more we will spend to fix it. However even with the most valuable items, we sometimes reluctantly decide that it is broken beyond repair. Are people like this? Are some simply too broken to fix? I feel awful thinking this, but I wonder if t…

I don't think there is such a thing as broken beyond repair. How would you even begin defining that? If you're thinking in economic terms then sure, we can try to optimize a limited budget to save/improve the maximum number of lives. It would still be beneficial to have at least a few people look into whether new methods can be developed to increase the amount of "good life" you get per dollar. Giving up and deciding something is beyond repair can be one course of action in this optimization, but it seems counter productive, and perhaps a bit unethical, to try and generalize this position. Having the thought, and the discussion, is obviously totally fine.

Re: Daddy isn’t coming back

#95

Post by topspin »

AdamN wrote: post #37
valenaut wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean by high/low compliance?

Meaning it's more acceptable to not comply with cultural standards: i.e. keep standard hours, have a job, not marry/have kids, or whatever else the standards of behavior are. I'm not convinced though that developing countries are actually lower compliance but that's what the OP means.

> I'm not convinced though that developing countries are actually lower compliance

They aren't, and there is far less opportunity to escape compliance. Deviation is an exclusive privilege of the prevailing strong men. Everyone else tows the community line and occupies their time scrutinizing precisely how well others are towing it as well. The romantic fiction that there is some great liberty in such places is a form of noble savage fantasy that emerges among those that have fully inculcated the contempt for their own culture they were trained to have.

Re: Daddy isn’t coming back

#96

Post by vlunkr »

gowld wrote: post #77
aerovistae wrote: post #35

Not a comment on the story itself, but rather on the postscript which follows it: > If you are struggling to cope or have been affected by anything in this story, please contact the Samaritans in the UK at 116 123 or jo@samaritans.org. In the US, the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline is 1-800-273-8255. More information at mind.org.uk, samaritans.org and save.org Years ago, unhappy but not suicidal, I decided to ca…

A suicide hotline is not a general mental health therapy. It was one function -- to prevent the caller from committing suicide in the immediate future. It was successful. You can't test the effectiveness of a suicide prevention with a dry run. Fire drills don't put out fires either. Also, you essentially admityed that you were making a false call. That's not going to get a great reply. You shouldn't call 911 to test…

Exactly, and I'm sure they want to keep their lines open for the real emergencies.

Re: Daddy isn’t coming back

#97

Post by watwut »

pengaru wrote: post #64
saghm wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd suggest looking up fertility rates for women based on age; it' quite difficult for a woman to get pregnant that late in life, and for some women it might not be possible at all.

It's historically somewhat common for older, more established and financially secure men to pair up with young women. It does seem like a good practical/pragmatic approach to raising a family.

The 40 years old man marrying young girl were business transactions.

The normal coupling differences were much smaller typically. (Like 6 years or something).

Re: Daddy isn’t coming back

#98

Post by aerovistae »

vlunkr wrote: post #96
gowld wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A suicide hotline is not a general mental health therapy. It was one function -- to prevent the caller from committing suicide in the immediate future. It was successful. You can't test the effectiveness of a suicide prevention with a dry run. Fire drills don't put out fires either. Also, you essentially admityed that you were making a false call. That's not going to get a great reply. You shouldn't call 911 to test…

Exactly, and I'm sure they want to keep their lines open for the real emergencies.

My point is that it can be hard to tell a real emergency from a non-real one. Not everyone is going to be sobbing and shouting. Some may sound calm and alright. If you've known someone who committed suicide, you probably know that there isn't always a flashing warning sign the day of. There is sometimes, but it's not reliable. I think it's important for a hotline to treat all calls equally.

Re: Daddy isn’t coming back

#99

Post by watwut »

muuglay wrote: post #53
anonporridge wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps a good reason to keep elevating the socially approved age to reproduce? By the time you're in your 40s, you likely have a good idea of whether or not you're a stable enough mind to commit to the minimum 20 years required to uplift a new human adult.

Not sure our biology is great at that, but paradoxically as an almost 40 year old... I have the resources to support a bunch of children. Maybe the change to make is change the dynamic between men and women to introduce more age differences for child rearing. My parents fought about money all the time, but if they had delayed then they would have been better off. If they were better off then maybe my mom wouldn't hav…

People on their 20 ties are more energetic and better handle sleep deprivation that comes with kids. Kids are not just costing money, they cost energy and effort.

Re: Daddy isn’t coming back

#100

Post by mjevans »

gowld wrote: post #77
aerovistae wrote: post #35

Not a comment on the story itself, but rather on the postscript which follows it: > If you are struggling to cope or have been affected by anything in this story, please contact the Samaritans in the UK at 116 123 or jo@samaritans.org. In the US, the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline is 1-800-273-8255. More information at mind.org.uk, samaritans.org and save.org Years ago, unhappy but not suicidal, I decided to ca…

A suicide hotline is not a general mental health therapy. It was one function -- to prevent the caller from committing suicide in the immediate future. It was successful. You can't test the effectiveness of a suicide prevention with a dry run. Fire drills don't put out fires either. Also, you essentially admityed that you were making a false call. That's not going to get a great reply. You shouldn't call 911 to test…

My impression differs.

The caller left the experience feeling more disheartened and unsupported. Logically that seems like they were at an _increased risk of suicide_ relative to when they called.

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