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“Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

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Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#581

Post by nonameiguess »

flerovium wrote: post #499

Does this apply to ISPs? If so, this headline is much bigger than it appears. In the US, it can often take a full day to cancel Comcast, Verizon, Spectrum... There are horror stories that require follow up over multiple days. If only laws could fight the administrative burden of insurance companies, healthcare providers, credit bureaus...

Ha, Spectrum very helpfully canceled my home Internet service without me even needing to ask when an incoming neighbor fat-fingered their new account signup and accidentally claimed to be moving into my house.

On the other hand, it did take a full day to get my service restored.

Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#582

Post by neltnerb »

elwell wrote: post #549
eckesicle wrote: post #502

Meanwhile in Scandinavia: You are legally entitled to unsubscribe from any contract in any way that is most comfortable to you. [0] For example, you can: * send them a letter * send them an email * call them and tell anyone who picks up the phone * write it on a napkin and hand it to an employee All are equally legit and legally binding. Companies obviously do not want to deal with the manual overhead, so services ty…

How does this law translate to decentralized contracts/subscriptions? It may not be possible to support these analog mediums on an Ethereum smart contract for example.

Why? Can't a company make it so that there's a "cancel contract" method? I am not an Ethereum expert, I just don't understand, to be clear.

I'm sure this is far more basic than what you know how to do, but this seems pretty simple to add a "cancel contract" method that seems like it'd meet the requirement to be as easy to cancel as it was to set up. The account status seems like they can at any time just read it off the smart contract, they already do for balance monitoring each month in this example.

https://www.sitepen.com/blog/smart-contracts-a-tutorial

Is the issue that there will be a bunch of extraneous data on the chain or something when, say, Verizon puts their entire customer database onto Ethereum?

Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#583

Post by yodsanklai »

wonderwonder wrote: post #271
yodsanklai wrote: post #138

I had the issue with the WSJ. I couldn't believe it was so hard to cancel. My solution was to update my card with an incorrect number, they canceled the subscription after the payment was declined.

I cancelled my wsj subscription the other day, I had to call to cancel which is insulting but it only took 5 minutes. Wonder if someone sued them in between our cancellations. I actually cancelled because I found out call to cancel was their policy. Wont do business with companies that have this process.

> but it only took 5 minutes

I live in a different country / time zone, wasn't unsure how long it was going to take and if my phone would be charged. Also English isn't my native language and it adds to the burden of having to call them.

Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#585

Post by vinaypai »

daenz wrote: post #422
aristophenes wrote: post #316

I had to cancel my gym membership because I was moving, and it required me to send a physical letter. I did this, but found out later that somehow I owed like 2 dollars, so they didn’t count my cancellation request because my account wasn’t up to date (should be illegal). They continued to bill me the entire membership fee, but my credit card had changed, so they sent my account to a collections agency. Right when I…

>so they sent my account to a collections agency Important clarification: they sold your account to a collections agency. They made more than what you actually owed them by doing that, which is probably why they did that.

> Important clarification: they sold your account to a collections agency. They made more than what you actually owed them by doing that, which is probably why they did that.

Um, no. Collection agencies buy debt at a discount, and make a profit if they manage to collect the full amount. It would make no sense for them to buy debt for more than what is owed.

Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#586

Post by ghaff »

ratww wrote: post #542
handrous wrote: post #513

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple-mediated subscriptions are at least easy to list & cancel. I do wish they'd 1) allow explicit demo versions of apps—using IAP to have a de-facto demo that requires IAP to upgrade just isn't as good, IMO, because I want to be able to distinguish demo-to-paid from nickel-and-diming IAP garbage, and 2) have an actually-free filter for apps that don't have ads, IAP, a paid upgrade, or heavy reliance on a paid accou…

I agree. The lack of distinction between Demo and IAP apps manages to hurt apps with demos, free apps and users. I really fail to see Apple's angle on this. Maybe they're trying to educate customers to accept IAPs.

If anything, I'd expect Apple to favor "fairly priced" apps you pay for upfront as was mostly the norm at the beginning.

The situation is probably more that free-to-play in various degrees of obnoxiousness that don't require an initial purchase to use the app--possibly with a separate demo version--is mostly what consumers expect these days.

Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#587

Post by vinaypai »

marcosdumay wrote: post #401
aristophenes wrote: post #316

I had to cancel my gym membership because I was moving, and it required me to send a physical letter. I did this, but found out later that somehow I owed like 2 dollars, so they didn’t count my cancellation request because my account wasn’t up to date (should be illegal). They continued to bill me the entire membership fee, but my credit card had changed, so they sent my account to a collections agency. Right when I…

Does your country have a small claims court? This is the exact situation you should sue them for reputational damage.

In most US states at least, you can only sue for actual damages in small claims court. Punitive, reputational or other things have to go through regular court.

Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#588

Post by jonahhorowitz »

MAGZine wrote: post #568
strenholme wrote: post #344

Since I live in California, which has a “click to subscribe means you must have click to cancel” regulation, this isn’t an issue for me. After the New York Times published their inaccurate hit piece attacking Scott Alexander and Slate Star Codex/Astral Codex Ten, I was able to cancel online just clicking my way through. I now subscribe to The Wall Street Journal, which looks to be the most neutral newspaper right now…

Canceling aside, I don't think the WSJ is particularly neutral, but perhaps it does appeal to your sensibilities (note, however, those are not the same). I find WSJ to take particularly corporatist/capitialist views on things. Which is fine for things business, I suppose, but I've read many articles from WSJ that are basically "hey government sucks, am i rite?" which is not neutral.

Not that HN is really the place for this discussion, but the _news_ section of the WSJ is pretty neutral and well written. The _opinion_ page is very slanted towards "corporatist/capitalist views".

Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#589

Post by scelerat »

mig39 wrote: post #439
codingclaws wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Portugal is logical on some stuff. Another example is prostitution is legal but you can only advertise yourself. I wonder what other countries have prostitution set up like this. Or the speed traps that just trigger a red light. Decriminalization of all drugs obviously too.

> Or the speed traps that just trigger a red light. This is the best. You trigger a red light because you're speeding, and everybody around you just glares at you. Including the old woman walking on the side of the street. It's like public shaming. Thanks bud, because of you, now we all have to sit at this red light and wait. Good job. That works so much better than the hidden speed camera ticket I get in the mail 6…

This would not work in Oakland. Cold red? zooooooommmmmm
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