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Divorce does funny things

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Re: Divorce does funny things

#341

Post by brigandish »

varjag wrote: post #333
brigandish wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do you consult arxiv every time you jaywalk? What am I supposed to take from that? That you're for the use of scientific research here? > Reminds of the droning crowds who claimed in March 2020 that masks don't work "because there is no supporting research". Since you brought it up, maybe if you supported looking into the research more often you'd be aware of how little supporting evidence there is - not research,…

Oh wow so you're an antimasker too, didn't have that on my bingo card. Thing is I did wonder how last years WHO-antimaskers cope with the advise reversal. Now I see they didn't. We found that communities with high reported mask-wearing and physical distancing had the highest predicted probability of transmission control. https://www.thelancet.com/journals/landig/article/PIIS2589-7... Not a shocker really given how al…

> That it's entirely possible to use common sense to gauge everyday risks without demanding a peer reviewed study.

It's also entirely possible to be wrong, and divorce or being cheated on is not an "everyday" risk, hence the challenge you encountered.

> In our case you didn't seem to bother looking for peer reviewed research that cheaters are more (or even just as ) trustworthy as baseline

Why should I need to? I know you want to make this personal as you keep engaging in rudeness and ad hominem but it's got nothing to do with your claim, and I'm not making a claim.

Just try backing it up instead of deflecting and being rude.

As to your study in the Lancet, did you read it? Even glance across it?

> Methods > Serial cross-sectional surveys were administered via a web platform to randomly surveyed US individuals aged 13 years and older, to query self-reports of face mask-wearing.

Amusing. I really think you should read the articles written by the esteemed epidemiologists I supplied, especially where they talk about what makes a good study.

Re: Divorce does funny things

#342

Post by llampx »

lenzm wrote: post #267
pnutjam wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both sides lose, men usually do better. https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/04/the- divorce-gap/480333/

If you value money more than your kids.

If you are a particular gender who is the beneficiary of systematic discrimination, you can have both.

Re: Divorce does funny things

#343

Post by williamtrask »

BirdieNZ wrote: post #323
bradlys wrote: post #289

I can say with great confidence - do not get married. Do not live in a common law state. You will very likely regret it immensely. If I had been legally married to my ex - I would’ve been raked over the coals. I could see myself being the man on that rig. She contributed nothing to our relationship (financially or emotionally) and I put her through college while she didn’t work or pay for anything. Yet, even if I sho…

I am sincerely grieved for you and your situation, and wish you find joy and perhaps re-discover trust for women in the future. Hopefully it is not poor taste, but I do disagree with your advice. Yes, marriage comes with a great deal of risk, because it is codifying your love. Love itself is risk, though. As C.S. Lewis said: > To love at all is to be vulnerable. Love anything and your heart will be wrung and possibly…

Beautifully said and couldn’t agree more.

There’s also plenty of empirical evidence for marriage’s positive impacts on kids not to mention the general principle that two are stronger than one. It’s an institution that’s thousands of years old and stretches across every society and religion for good reason.

Sadly not all marriages are successful (not unlike a startup). But this doesn’t mean they’re not worth pursuing.

Re: Divorce does funny things

#344

Post by [deleted] »

rsj_hn wrote: post #180
WastingMyTime89 wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But if I hear that someone was unfaithful to their spouse, my business trust in them goes waaay down. > If they're willing to break trust with the person closest to them in their life, what chance do I have as a mere business partner of not being screwed over at some point? That's a very American perspective. People position on extramarital affair is extremely culturaly dependant. It goes from deep public revulsion…

We could use a bit less wildly inaccurate stereotypes than "extremely puritanical USA". Please consider updating your views of our country from the 18th Century. Imagine if I went around ranting about "extremely Catholic France".

[deleted]

Re: Divorce does funny things

#345

Post by williamtrask »

BEm68vjV2fxQX8 wrote: post #338
acoard wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ~50% of married couple divorce That figure is outdated and I'd challenge what it represents. Here's more up to date info: >The most recent data we have from the 2019 American Community Survey puts the rate at 14.9 divorces per 1,000 marriages, the lowest number since 1970. [0] Further, the "50% of marriages end in divorce" is heavily skewed because it includes serial divorces/remarriages. If 5 couples marry for lif…

How come you don't count these 5 marriages this 1 person went through? You have 5 stable marriages + 5 marriages that ended up in divorce = 10 marriages in total So yes, 50% of marriages are 'unstable' in your example. If you count people affected, (and even assuming that these failed marriages were with a partner who was never married either before or after), then you have: 10 people in 'stable' marriages + 6 people…

If 15% of the population participates in 90% of the divorces it’s an important factor in the commentary on the institution of marriage. It indicates that some individuals are more or less compatible for it as opposed to a 50/50 random gossip that yours will fail.

Re: Divorce does funny things

#346

Post by williamtrask »

mensetmanusman wrote: post #303
acoard wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ~50% of married couple divorce That figure is outdated and I'd challenge what it represents. Here's more up to date info: >The most recent data we have from the 2019 American Community Survey puts the rate at 14.9 divorces per 1,000 marriages, the lowest number since 1970. [0] Further, the "50% of marriages end in divorce" is heavily skewed because it includes serial divorces/remarriages. If 5 couples marry for lif…

The increasing percentage of non-divorcing marriages might be self-selecting in a sense since it is now socially acceptable to never get married, so we miss out on ‘breakups’ that are long/medium term. (E.g. non-married couples sleeping together for 5 years and having no children and then having a horrible breakup is more likely today than 100 years ago, and they are lost in the divorce statistic).

Yeah but if there aren’t kids or financial assets intertwined and there wasn’t ever the expectation of “forever” it’s a very different thing.

Re: Divorce does funny things

#347

Post by throwaway211116 »

throwaway_sjfgd wrote: post #297
throwaway211116 wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Non-monogamous societies have solved welfare of children in different ways. I am not able to say if any method of taking care of children is better. On the other hand, monogamy absolutely had a massive impact on STD reduction in a world with absolutely no notion of medicine.

Agreed. A question I have is if the STD issue mentioned still valid, as a motivation for monogamy?

I am not qualified to answer.

I would tentatively say, decreasingly so. The issue, as I see it, is that although we have preventive measures and prophylactics and treatments (all imperfect), we do not yet have a culture of responsibility and building such a culture is hard.

Theoretically we could compensate for the deficiencies of our medicine, through social responsibility. In reality this does not happen. The clearest proof is the behavior of people during the Covid pandemic. Covid Zero was only achieved in a few countries. Human society is not mature enough to be responsible. Monogamy (with regards to STDs) is like social isolation for Covid and has the same strengths and weaknesses.

In the case of STDs this would mean pervasive use of testing, condoms, dental dams, etc.. Apparently the porn industry gets tested very frequently because for them an STD represents lost income. The general population not so much. When was the last time you heard of someone using a dental dam during a one night stand? It should mean a push for testing from dating apps. It would mean that someone who has an affair should actually warn the cheated partner, instead of waiting for symptoms to appear. These responsible behaviors do not happen, or at least are not as common as they should be.

As long social responsibility is not a viable solution, the only solution left is developing vaccines. On this side progress is being made, but it is slow.

If either solution is achieved, the potential for STDs becomes irrelevant in the choice of preferred *gamy. Note that monogamy is far from foolproof. Cheating happens, a lot. Also you can get infected through means other than sex and then transmit the disease via sex.

Personally I believe humans do not hate disease enough to care. I support a strategy of genocide against harmful microbes. Nothing less than complete extermination will be satisfactory.

Re: Divorce does funny things

#348

Post by mgh2 »

BirdieNZ wrote: post #323
bradlys wrote: post #289

I can say with great confidence - do not get married. Do not live in a common law state. You will very likely regret it immensely. If I had been legally married to my ex - I would’ve been raked over the coals. I could see myself being the man on that rig. She contributed nothing to our relationship (financially or emotionally) and I put her through college while she didn’t work or pay for anything. Yet, even if I sho…

I am sincerely grieved for you and your situation, and wish you find joy and perhaps re-discover trust for women in the future. Hopefully it is not poor taste, but I do disagree with your advice. Yes, marriage comes with a great deal of risk, because it is codifying your love. Love itself is risk, though. As C.S. Lewis said: > To love at all is to be vulnerable. Love anything and your heart will be wrung and possibly…

This only works if you marry someone who does not believe in divorce. Good luck these days.

Re: Divorce does funny things

#349

Post by throwaway_sjfgd »

williamtrask wrote: post #343
BirdieNZ wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am sincerely grieved for you and your situation, and wish you find joy and perhaps re-discover trust for women in the future. Hopefully it is not poor taste, but I do disagree with your advice. Yes, marriage comes with a great deal of risk, because it is codifying your love. Love itself is risk, though. As C.S. Lewis said: > To love at all is to be vulnerable. Love anything and your heart will be wrung and possibly…

Beautifully said and couldn’t agree more. There’s also plenty of empirical evidence for marriage’s positive impacts on kids not to mention the general principle that two are stronger than one. It’s an institution that’s thousands of years old and stretches across every society and religion for good reason. Sadly not all marriages are successful (not unlike a startup). But this doesn’t mean they’re not worth pursuing.

I overall agree to what you have said. Marriage has positive impacts on children, and that's why love itself evolved. However, "marriage" as it stands today from a social and legal standpoints comes with a lots of side things that should not be. Times have changed in the thousands of years, however, the system is not being adapted with these changes. The challenges that would have been when the concept of marriage developed (which predates written history) are not the same as the challenges today.

I am not against marriage in itself, however, what it means all taken together is in need of adjustment. And that will happen sooner or later. The positive impacts on children can continue as the system is refined. The only question is how many suffer during the transition phase.

Re: Divorce does funny things

#350

Post by mensetmanusman »

Tras884 wrote: post #311
bradlys wrote: post #289

I can say with great confidence - do not get married. Do not live in a common law state. You will very likely regret it immensely. If I had been legally married to my ex - I would’ve been raked over the coals. I could see myself being the man on that rig. She contributed nothing to our relationship (financially or emotionally) and I put her through college while she didn’t work or pay for anything. Yet, even if I sho…

Women initiate divorce 70% of the time. For college educated women this rate is 90%.

That is an amazing statistic…
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