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Divorce does funny things

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Re: Divorce does funny things

#241

Post by quietbritishjim »

ergl wrote: post #222
ameminator wrote: post #219

It's surprising to me that this article, which was mostly about the life of a man on an oil rig, could inspire such discussion about divorce. Obviously, divorce touches on a very fundamental part of many people's lives (especially, it seems, for men) - and we so rarely discuss it. It's amazing to me that there are so few places to talk about this, that the comments section on a short character piece (which in all hon…

> It's surprising to me that this article, which was mostly about the life of a man on an oil rig, could inspire such discussion about divorce. It's only surprising if you assume people read the story, instead of simply reacting to the headline. It's against the rules to say, but I'd bet the big majority of commenters never opened the link above.

The author of the article (or the editor) also must have thought that it was a key aspect of the article given that it was chosen to be the title.

And there wasn't a great deal else in the article (some discussion of oil rigs, including Piper Alpha, but not much specifics). We never got to find out what the stories written by the person being interviewed were. I actually found it a bit odd, like it was an introduction to a longer article that got cut off just as the main part was starting. In the end, the anecdote involving divorce was the only substantial thing in there. So even if you did read it, that's a fair part to react to.

Re: Divorce does funny things

#242

Post by pnutjam »

toyg wrote: post #195
vecinu wrote: post #128

As a recently ( Obviously therapy is a good first resource and then working on yourself going forward is a good strategy but man, I can totally understand how some men are obliterated when children are involved and the other spouse is out for blood. I consider myself lucky that it happened before I got too old, had children and who knows what other things could have happened but damn, it still hurts.

4 years ago last month, for me. In some ways it gets better - you don't have to answer to anybody but yourself, again. In others, it doesn't - society now sees you a bit differently, and will continue to do so until you somehow get back "on the rails" with a new partner. > I can totally understand how some men are obliterated when children are involved and the other spouse is out for blood Happened to a friend of min…

Both sides lose, men usually do better.

https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/04/the- divorce-gap/480333/

Re: Divorce does funny things

#243

Post by cm2012 »

WastingMyTime89 wrote: post #215
refurb wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in one of those cultures today and I’d emphasize the “tolerated” part. Not that dissimilar to physically hitting your spouse. Nobody likes it but feel powerless to change it. But I wouldn’t say it’s viewed positively or even neutrally.

> I live in one of those cultures today and I’d emphasize the “tolerated” part. Not that dissimilar to physically hitting your spouse. It has absolutely nothing in common with hitting your spouse. It is extremely frowned upon to openly display it but relatively accepted if it's discreet. It's very correlated to the relation a population has to sex. People in very religious countries where sex is seen as moraly dubiou…

If it's culturally acceptable, a wink wink nudge nudge that both partners understand, it's not cheating since no trust is really broken. It's just an open relationship, who cares.

Re: Divorce does funny things

#244

Post by toomuchtodo »

pnutjam wrote: post #242
toyg wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

4 years ago last month, for me. In some ways it gets better - you don't have to answer to anybody but yourself, again. In others, it doesn't - society now sees you a bit differently, and will continue to do so until you somehow get back "on the rails" with a new partner. > I can totally understand how some men are obliterated when children are involved and the other spouse is out for blood Happened to a friend of min…

Both sides lose, men usually do better. https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/04/the- divorce-gap/480333/

Link is broken due to a space: https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/04/the-div...

Re: Divorce does funny things

#245

Post by toomuchtodo »

3pt14159 wrote: post #159
atoav wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Technically everything can be used to establish a (operational) perception of a person — and everything can be wrong. Someone wears a Rolex? Maybe they are rich and want to show off, maybe they inherited it from a dying family member. If they however additionally drive a super car, wear designer clothes the likelyhood of alternative explainations goes down. If someone is a nice, cordial and all around good person and…

The most enlightening bit I read online on this subject was that of a serial cheater who held no remorse for doing so. Her attitude was basically something like: > Hey, I love him and if he doesn't know it doesn't hurt him and if I ask for permission not only will it hurt him, but he won't give it to me anyway. So I'll just lie to him. Which kinda blew my mind. I understand cheating as a I-messed-up thing or as a my-…

> Hey, I love him and if he doesn't know it doesn't hurt him and if I ask for permission not only will it hurt him, but he won't give it to me anyway. So I'll just lie to him.

I used to knew someone like this. "Love and sex are different, separate things." It taught me to be more guarded about who I associate with.

Re: Divorce does funny things

#246

Post by WastingMyTime89 »

cm2012 wrote: post #243
WastingMyTime89 wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I live in one of those cultures today and I’d emphasize the “tolerated” part. Not that dissimilar to physically hitting your spouse. It has absolutely nothing in common with hitting your spouse. It is extremely frowned upon to openly display it but relatively accepted if it's discreet. It's very correlated to the relation a population has to sex. People in very religious countries where sex is seen as moraly dubiou…

If it's culturally acceptable, a wink wink nudge nudge that both partners understand, it's not cheating since no trust is really broken. It's just an open relationship, who cares.

It's definitely cheating and the partner cheated upon might not find it acceptable at all. Everyone would understand someone divorcing because they were cheated upon.

It's just not seen as morally disqualifying. People view cheating as a mostly private matter and acknowledge it happens. When it was revealed that the former president was having an affair with an actress, it barely impacted his popularity.

Re: Divorce does funny things

#247

Post by me_me_me »

Demonsult wrote: post #214
me_me_me wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They might reconsider marriage as an institution altogether. While I dont disagree with your statements, the statistics don't lie. Men in marriage live longer and healthier lives on average to men in long-term relationships and to single men.

Or are healthy, well-adjusted men just more likely to end up married?

Yes thats true. Also if you live alone and slip in shower there might be no one to notice and help you etc. There is no easy answers with anything to do with sociology.

Re: Divorce does funny things

#248

Post by ximeng »

jessriedel wrote: post #225
ximeng wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Suppose a guy and a girl married are both 5/10 in happiness, and that if they divorce they will be 2/10 in happiness for five years, then will recover. Scenario 1 The woman and the man expect their happiness in marriage to stay around 5/10. After five years of divorce they have recovered a bit, but the woman recovers more and is now 6/10 but the man is 4/10. Scenario 2 An alternative is that even though they are both…

> Woman filing for divorce more could be evidence for scenario 1, which is my interpretation of your post. This is not what I intended. I was just trying to counter the suggestion by me_im_counting that men are likely to do better following divorce because of reasons like (according to him) men find it easier to remarry, women are more likely to keep the kids, and men divorce in response to cancer. All of those, as e…

So following a divorce there are a number of factors that affect people's long term happiness: possibility of remarrying, quality of time spent to kids, amount of income lost due to childcare and amount of income paid to ex-spouse, and so on.

We can assume overall these tend to impact men and women differently, with for example women tending to get more access to kids but losing income as they spend time on childcare, and men tending to pay more to their ex-wives and losing time with the kids.

You argue that women gain more from divorce than men overall as women are the ones who file for divorce in the majority of cases.

Let's accept for the sake of argument that women do relatively better out of divorces all things considered. The explanation for this could be good post-divorce outcomes for women, which are the factors above such as ease of remarrying or custody. This is what I see as the core of your argument.

An alternative explanation might be that in a bad marriage, women are in a particularly vulnerable position relative to men. In that case even with worse outcomes from divorce for women, it might still make sense for women to file for divorce more often.

I think it would be hard to find convincing evidence either way. But it's plausible the tension may just be apparent and there is another explanation.

Re: Divorce does funny things

#249

Post by Dracophoenix »

throwaway_sjfgd wrote: post #229
vmception wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I want to ask you about this, in hindsight do you think it would work better for your mental health if you didn't care as much? Like, I can read this and see that alimony is a persistent threat and reality that comes as a byproduct of being successful in my aspirations. I can just assume that it is in my future if I pursue certain kinds of relationships. 30-50% of marriages fail (the lower bound being more applicable…

Continuing in a separate comment: Advise for you and others: * Use social and legal provisions towards your own favor as much as possible whatever those are -- live-in relationships, friends with benefits, getting to know each other well upfront, pre-nuptial agreements, etc. * Keep an escape route. E.g., keep finances strictly separate. * Read 'good' books on how all this works, like on psychology of love relationshi…

Any particular recommendations in the books you've read?

Re: Divorce does funny things

#250

Post by hunterb123 »

bartvk wrote: post #151
hunterb123 wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think unfaithful was the keyword, if it is consensual and open then the partner wasn't unfaithful. I'd assume GP would only hold this judgement for someone cheating, not swinging. The main point was trust. Trust is earned. Whether you break a promise with your life partner or your business partner, you've destroyed a chunk of your reputation.

But how do you know it was unfaithful? Lots of open relationships don’t broadcast this fact due to the stigma and taboo around it. Plus, OP said they’d go on hearsay.

So the cheating got around ears but the open relationship wouldn't? What a strange selectively gossipy community. I'd think people would normally cover up both as they are personal, but all shit can get out.
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