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Divorce does funny things

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Re: Divorce does funny things

#221

Post by rich_sasha »

rsj_hn wrote: post #180
WastingMyTime89 wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But if I hear that someone was unfaithful to their spouse, my business trust in them goes waaay down. > If they're willing to break trust with the person closest to them in their life, what chance do I have as a mere business partner of not being screwed over at some point? That's a very American perspective. People position on extramarital affair is extremely culturaly dependant. It goes from deep public revulsion…

We could use a bit less wildly inaccurate stereotypes than "extremely puritanical USA". Please consider updating your views of our country from the 18th Century. Imagine if I went around ranting about "extremely Catholic France".

In my experience, such attitudes leave a hefty footprint on the culture -- or if you prefer, take much longer to shake off than the regime that bred them, religious in this case.

In Europe you can still very clearly see which countries have a protestant, "work hard or go to hell" attitude to life, and which have an, oddly, Catholic "let's enjoy life and see how it goes" approach. Religion participation rates have dwindled away in Western Europe for sure, since WWII if not before.

Re: Divorce does funny things

#222

Post by ergl »

ameminator wrote: post #219

It's surprising to me that this article, which was mostly about the life of a man on an oil rig, could inspire such discussion about divorce. Obviously, divorce touches on a very fundamental part of many people's lives (especially, it seems, for men) - and we so rarely discuss it. It's amazing to me that there are so few places to talk about this, that the comments section on a short character piece (which in all hon…

> It's surprising to me that this article, which was mostly about the life of a man on an oil rig, could inspire such discussion about divorce.

It's only surprising if you assume people read the story, instead of simply reacting to the headline. It's against the rules to say, but I'd bet the big majority of commenters never opened the link above.

Re: Divorce does funny things

#223

Post by MisterTea »

throwaway_sjfgd wrote: post #197

I am going through it right now too. Very short background: * Wife abusive from the beginning * Sexless marriage as she refused * Beating herself up for years * She's not earning (highly qualified) * Did not take care of child or home either * Tried to frame me however I figured and escaped * Living separately now * She filed false and frivolous violence complaint against me * Not letting me meet my child * Court gra…

> Wife abusive from the beginning

People who get into these relationships always paint themselves as victims when everyone around them knew it was a disaster from the beginning. I just don't understand how they get there unless they willingly ignore signs of bad behavior or they think they can fix or change people. That or they're just stupid.

I have a coworker in a bad relationship that seems to be headed towards marriage. He even jokes about how he cant stand her manipulation, control and social gatekeeping yet he's still with her. I don't get it. He is good looking, educated, and living independent with a career. He can easily find someone better. But no. He has to stand in the back of the venue with her pouting about how much his favorite band sucks while they play because he invited a single girl friend along for me to meet.

You reap what you sew.

Re: Divorce does funny things

#224

Post by koonsolo »

op00to wrote: post #211
vecinu wrote: post #128

As a recently ( Obviously therapy is a good first resource and then working on yourself going forward is a good strategy but man, I can totally understand how some men are obliterated when children are involved and the other spouse is out for blood. I consider myself lucky that it happened before I got too old, had children and who knows what other things could have happened but damn, it still hurts.

I have a buddy who is going through this. He’s far away, but I still want to help. What can I do?

What helped for me:

1. Talking to a person who went through the same thing.

2. Buddies that invited themselves and planned some other social activities to get my head away from it.

So I would suggest to give him a call, or a video call and play a remote board game with some buddies or something like that. (or Among Us, which is also fun over a video call)

Re: Divorce does funny things

#225

Post by jessriedel »

ximeng wrote: post #105
jessriedel wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To expect a better outcome with divorce is to expect a worse outcome without divorce.

Suppose a guy and a girl married are both 5/10 in happiness, and that if they divorce they will be 2/10 in happiness for five years, then will recover. Scenario 1 The woman and the man expect their happiness in marriage to stay around 5/10. After five years of divorce they have recovered a bit, but the woman recovers more and is now 6/10 but the man is 4/10. Scenario 2 An alternative is that even though they are both…

> Woman filing for divorce more could be evidence for scenario 1, which is my interpretation of your post.

This is not what I intended. I was just trying to counter the suggestion by me_im_counting that men are likely to do better following divorce because of reasons like (according to him) men find it easier to remarry, women are more likely to keep the kids, and men divorce in response to cancer. All of those, as explanations, are in tension with the fact that men are less likely to be initiating divorce.

Re: Divorce does funny things

#226

Post by mensetmanusman »

throwaway_sjfgd wrote: post #197

I am going through it right now too. Very short background: * Wife abusive from the beginning * Sexless marriage as she refused * Beating herself up for years * She's not earning (highly qualified) * Did not take care of child or home either * Tried to frame me however I figured and escaped * Living separately now * She filed false and frivolous violence complaint against me * Not letting me meet my child * Court gra…

Sorry that you are going through this, life is full of hardship, and divorce is a facet of death itself.

“ Marriage as a notion itself feels wrong.”

The notion of marriage has fractured into cultural subgroups as it has been redefined over the last century.

One of the more interesting stats to me is that young people today don’t even put children in the top ten reasons for marriage like they did just 40 years ago.

I’m wondering which of the notions of marriage you feel seem wrong.

Re: Divorce does funny things

#227

Post by koonsolo »

icu wrote: post #175
vecinu wrote: post #128

As a recently ( Obviously therapy is a good first resource and then working on yourself going forward is a good strategy but man, I can totally understand how some men are obliterated when children are involved and the other spouse is out for blood. I consider myself lucky that it happened before I got too old, had children and who knows what other things could have happened but damn, it still hurts.

I can relate to the devastating on many levels part. I felt like I didn't actually know what happened in the past, so I didn't know who I was in the present, and the future I was working towards was gone. It was existentially disorienting. I know this is unsolicited advice, but for what it's worth take some time to figure out how and why you found yourself in the situation. Write about the past and use the writing to…

> It was existentially disorienting.

I had a family with 3 kids, so it left quite an impact on me.

For years I felt like the real me was still non-divorced, living his life like normal. And I ended up in this surreal parallel universe, where I'm divorced and living in some kind of bad dream.

Good thing that feeling is over, and I was able to pick up my life again. Your mind can play some crazy tricks to cope with certain situations.

Re: Divorce does funny things

#228

Post by rsj_hn »

rich_sasha wrote: post #221
rsj_hn wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We could use a bit less wildly inaccurate stereotypes than "extremely puritanical USA". Please consider updating your views of our country from the 18th Century. Imagine if I went around ranting about "extremely Catholic France".

In my experience, such attitudes leave a hefty footprint on the culture -- or if you prefer, take much longer to shake off than the regime that bred them, religious in this case. In Europe you can still very clearly see which countries have a protestant, "work hard or go to hell" attitude to life, and which have an, oddly, Catholic "let's enjoy life and see how it goes" approach. Religion participation rates have dwi…

Sure, but there is a difference between "being influenced by puritan culture along with many other historical forces" and "extremely puritan nation".

I'm also not so sure about the accuracy of your Catholic stereotypes. The greatest German industry and wealth is in the Catholic south ("upper Germany"), for example, and not in the Protestant North or Northeast. Similarly there are huge differences between Northern and Southern Italy yet both are Catholic, so I don't think it's religion that is the difference maker when comparing, say, Germany and Italy's productivity and work habits.

Re: Divorce does funny things

#229

Post by throwaway_sjfgd »

vmception wrote: post #207
throwaway_sjfgd wrote: post #197

I am going through it right now too. Very short background: * Wife abusive from the beginning * Sexless marriage as she refused * Beating herself up for years * She's not earning (highly qualified) * Did not take care of child or home either * Tried to frame me however I figured and escaped * Living separately now * She filed false and frivolous violence complaint against me * Not letting me meet my child * Court gra…

I want to ask you about this, in hindsight do you think it would work better for your mental health if you didn't care as much? Like, I can read this and see that alimony is a persistent threat and reality that comes as a byproduct of being successful in my aspirations. I can just assume that it is in my future if I pursue certain kinds of relationships. 30-50% of marriages fail (the lower bound being more applicable…

Continuing in a separate comment:

Advise for you and others:

* Use social and legal provisions towards your own favor as much as possible whatever those are -- live-in relationships, friends with benefits, getting to know each other well upfront, pre-nuptial agreements, etc.

* Keep an escape route. E.g., keep finances strictly separate.

* Read 'good' books on how all this works, like on psychology of love relationships, parenting, divorce, etc.

* Need timely action as and when it is becoming bad and timely quitting. Don't go by the common guidance received which rests on inexperience and biases. Look at the statsistics and make good judgment calls. I have come across books on this too. Books sometimes give better advise than professional help (whether psychologists or lawyers) as the book author has no more ongoing vested interest once the book is sold.

In a nutshell, love yourself more than your life partner, and don't let your judgment be clouded. Read good books to build your judgment from the experiences of others.

Re: Divorce does funny things

#230

Post by jessriedel »

AussieWog93 wrote: post #110
jessriedel wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fwiw, the large majority (~70%) of divorces are initiated by women in the US. Most divorces are not caused by cancer, and the advantage men have in re-marrying later are known and appreciated. So I think we can take the fact that most divorces are initiated by women as prima facie evidence that women recover better from divorces.

>So I think we can take the fact that most divorces are initiated by women as prima facie evidence that women recover better from divorces. That's a pretty big assumption, especially considering how irrational many people are when it comes to divorce. Personally, I've always assumed the discrepancy was caused by women's higher standards and belief that they can get a better man that "treats them right". I wouldn't be…

My use of "prima facie" specifically flagged that I was not assuming the conclusion, only that it's good evidence that shifts the burden of proof.
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