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The benefits of not belonging

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Re: The benefits of not belonging

#31

Post by notriddle »

TimedToasts wrote: post #30
Svperstar wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>There are minorities out here and we all get along just fine. I wonder if we talked to minorities in rural communities if they would agree with your assessment.

I am and I would.

I used to live in rural America. I don't any more. There are reasons for that.

Cities usually kill people by ignoring them until they die. Exceptions are so rare that they become the stuff of history books.

The big upside of cities is that nobody cares enough about you to actually hate you. If you're running away from something, that can be pretty inviting.

Re: The benefits of not belonging

#32

Post by UncleOxidant »

cblconfederate wrote: post #29

I was just wondering, are there disconnected internets that i can join? I d rather stay in a limited sector that is not overpopulated and oversaturated with the mainstream, even if it has huge downsides. Just like how biology uses membranes to build the useful stuff , i think we need harder borders between internet communities to increase the variance. Everyone moving around like a giant mob and lashing at each other…

You just refuse to participate. If you want an exclusive club, leave the non-exclusive ones. Back to blogging instead of the social media mob. And much more actual face-to-face interaction instead of interacting via an online platform.

Re: The benefits of not belonging

#33

Post by cblconfederate »

UncleOxidant wrote: post #32
cblconfederate wrote: post #29

I was just wondering, are there disconnected internets that i can join? I d rather stay in a limited sector that is not overpopulated and oversaturated with the mainstream, even if it has huge downsides. Just like how biology uses membranes to build the useful stuff , i think we need harder borders between internet communities to increase the variance. Everyone moving around like a giant mob and lashing at each other…

You just refuse to participate. If you want an exclusive club, leave the non-exclusive ones. Back to blogging instead of the social media mob. And much more actual face-to-face interaction instead of interacting via an online platform.

online is important. Today's cities have become more impersonal and less cohesive than in the past. blogging is indeed a good idea

Re: The benefits of not belonging

#34

Post by redis_mlc »

IAmWorried wrote: post #3

Honestly does anybody NOT feel alienated in our current society? The US is overly hostile, we imported the whole world and all its cultural hangups with it. I mean if you're white people are shitting on you, if you're black people are shitting on you, if you're male people are shitting on you, if you're female people are shitting on you... like what exactly is this country FOR? Does anybody REALLY feel like they belo…

[dead]

Re: The benefits of not belonging

#36

Post by npsimons »

jefurii wrote: post #19

I've always felt on the fringe of whatever group I was associated with. Honestly it doesn't feel that great. But certain times I realize I'm connected to a lot more people, and diverse people than those who are in the center of these various groups. I also feel like I have more integrity, don't have to sell my soul just to belong. YMMV

> Honestly it doesn't feel that great.

You get used to it. After a while, you prefer it, in no small part due to having that outside perspective that is all too valuable in realizing how bad groupthink is.

Re: The benefits of not belonging

#37

Post by UncleOxidant »

IAmWorried wrote: post #3

Honestly does anybody NOT feel alienated in our current society? The US is overly hostile, we imported the whole world and all its cultural hangups with it. I mean if you're white people are shitting on you, if you're black people are shitting on you, if you're male people are shitting on you, if you're female people are shitting on you... like what exactly is this country FOR? Does anybody REALLY feel like they belo…

America is an alienating place but I don't think it's for the reasons you mention (they play a factor more recently, but alienation has been an American attribute for quite some time - See Bowling Alone by Putnam written in 2000.).

What has driven alienation in America? You could make the case for hyper-individualism and that plays a big part. The way our cities are designed also plays a role - mostly they're designed around the automobile which doesn't afford us opportunities to run into people we might know as we walk around. Cars are privacy bubbles that allow us to be isolated as we travel around. Look at a European city. There are often people just chatting on a corner or in a piazza - interaction happens much more often in those contexts because those cities tend to be set up in such a way to allow it to happen.

Finally, I think the American fetishization (for lack of a better word) of work plays a role. We Americans tend to define ourselves by the work we do to a larger degree than people in many other parts of the world.

Given the isolation that was already there in American culture, along comes social media and initially it kind of looked like it was going to help be an antidote to that isolation - I think a lot of folks wanted out of the isolation and thought that was going to be a way out. But it ends up often making it even worse - and definitely exacerbates the division between tribal groups. Our alienation causes us to want to identify with these tribal groups for a feeling of belonging and these tribes end up "shitting on" other tribes not aligned with them.

Re: The benefits of not belonging

#38

Post by legerdemain »

gumby wrote: post #17

I also find it valuable…it’s part of the difference between an immigrant mentality and an ex pat mentality. The third culture insight explains a lot. My life, my mother’s life… A couple of things didn’t match my experience: > Then my move to San Francisco in 1999. Definitely an outsider without the Stanford or Berkeley or Ivy League I definitely don’t understand this unless it’s some weird sf thing. I live in the Val…

About half the people I know in leadership roles in Silicon Valley came from Stanford and Berkeley. About half of the senior designers I know came from the D School. Heck, basically all senior leads on Palantir's Gotham platform came from the same Stanford fraternity. Startups in Silicon Valley are profoundly parochial in their membership.

Re: The benefits of not belonging

#39

Post by fumar »

RobertRoberts wrote: post #22
dnissley wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a very rosy view of rural America, to which I am a frequent visitor. Just a few dysfunctions off the top of my head: - Reactionary politics were born in rural America, urban America is just catching up these days. - The value system of rural America is dismissive of nerdy/intellectual pursuits, and so it drives out talent that was already enticed by the opportunities present in cities. - More broadly there is…

Come live out here for a while, talk with people, understand them. I've lived all over, including LA, east coast, south, Chicago, near the border of Mexico (I worked with illegals there even in sweat shops). Rural America is garden of peace and contentment compared to the urban areas. Your views are admitedly from a visitor... and there is no way you can compare them equally that way. Ignore Foxnews & CNN and get to…

First, I am glad you found a place that suits you. I grew up in a suburb adjacent to a major city up until high school, then I moved to the rural midwest. As a minority, I found it near impossible to fit in. All of my beliefs, from ethnicity-based to city-based, were misaligned to the general consensus of the rural mindset.

Sure, there was open space and generally it was green or pale yellow from the corns, but it was a terrible place for a young mind. I didn't like football or wrestling and I didn't love confederate flags on pick up trucks. The general take was that I was an outsider not to be friends with. Eventually, I made friends but I can still hear the "he is okay, he is like a white [insert minority]" from adults and people at school.

This was in the late 90's and early 2000's before Fox and CNN doubled-down on extreme views. People in rural America hated immigrants just as much then as they do know.

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