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The benefits of not belonging

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Re: The benefits of not belonging

#11
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not where I live, rural America. All the insanity is _literally_ in the big cities. There are minorities out here and we all get along just fine. It's political groups and the media that get people whipped up into hatred for each other, not individuals or communities. The times have changed, and the media and agitators (no better term?) that don't want to admit they are part of the problem.

It can be nice in big cities too, maybe a little harder, but still pretty easy - all you have to do is remove social media and the clickbait/outrage web and life becomes pretty normal.

I'm not sure it does. I see weird people in the subway most days, I see all the time people that look like they spend all their day being outside - doing nothing, there are people making noise at 2 am on a week night, there are people going at crazy speeds on the street, at night or during the day. I feel like lots of people have some kind of weight on their shoulder, and/or one or multiple things bothering them a lot. Sometimes the atmoshpere feels a bit tense and everyone seems a little crazy.

I think it's a bit reductive to put all that on social media and the web. People are packed together in cities, sometimes you smell piss while going to and getting back from your job, sometimes people make noise when you want to sleep, it's hard to see nature, it's hard to be alone, it's hard to escape the noise and the light, public transportation can feel suffocating, the air isn't clean, it's very hard to have space to grow some food or practice some hobbies.

Most of it is "normal" in that many people live like this. However, I feel like all that I mentionned has a negative impact on my mental health, and on the mental health of the people around me. One that could translate to people being more aggressive, more tense in general.

Re: The benefits of not belonging

#12

Honestly does anybody NOT feel alienated in our current society? The US is overly hostile, we imported the whole world and all its cultural hangups with it. I mean if you're white people are shitting on you, if you're black people are shitting on you, if you're male people are shitting on you, if you're female people are shitting on you... like what exactly is this country FOR? Does anybody REALLY feel like they belo…

Not where I live, rural America. All the insanity is _literally_ in the big cities. There are minorities out here and we all get along just fine. It's political groups and the media that get people whipped up into hatred for each other, not individuals or communities. The times have changed, and the media and agitators (no better term?) that don't want to admit they are part of the problem.

This is a very rosy view of rural America, to which I am a frequent visitor. Just a few dysfunctions off the top of my head:

- Reactionary politics were born in rural America, urban America is just catching up these days.

- The value system of rural America is dismissive of nerdy/intellectual pursuits, and so it drives out talent that was already enticed by the opportunities present in cities.

- More broadly there is a kind of pride in being very separate/distinct from the other parts of America, but it seems pretty shallow to me -- the emphasis seems mostly to be on the material trappings of "ruralness" (being a farmer, having a big truck, wearing camo patterns), and not on the values themselves.

- And perhaps rolled up in politics, but I feel the need to call it out because I sense it on display in your comment: An eagerness to play the victim to the rest of America. "It's just those city folks that cause all our problems."

Re: The benefits of not belonging

#13

Honestly does anybody NOT feel alienated in our current society? The US is overly hostile, we imported the whole world and all its cultural hangups with it. I mean if you're white people are shitting on you, if you're black people are shitting on you, if you're male people are shitting on you, if you're female people are shitting on you... like what exactly is this country FOR? Does anybody REALLY feel like they belo…

I like America. I used to feel like a foreigner but now I have money and it turns out America likes that.

Re: The benefits of not belonging

#14
I wonder if there is a bit of survivorship bias in this article. Some kids grow up in a non-friendly environment, but develop the skills to deal with the adversity, and when they grow up, those skills become highly advantageous. Other kids whither and fall apart in such an adverse environment, suffer from low self-esteem, substance abuse, and other mental illnesses, and never get the chance to reap the benefits of being an outsider.

Re: The benefits of not belonging

#15

Honestly does anybody NOT feel alienated in our current society? The US is overly hostile, we imported the whole world and all its cultural hangups with it. I mean if you're white people are shitting on you, if you're black people are shitting on you, if you're male people are shitting on you, if you're female people are shitting on you... like what exactly is this country FOR? Does anybody REALLY feel like they belo…

America is a big place. Being alive today allows us to be exposed to a multitude of diverse communities. If you select a particular place or community at random, chances are, you won't fit in. But there probably is a group you DO fit into. The situation today is much better than our ancestors, who were born into a tribe, and were probably stuck living within that tribe.

This.

I'm the only person in my extended family who has an artistic/creative personality. Fitting in in a small midwestern city was not an option. I find a few friends in college for a while but graduation separated us.

Fortunately, the internet made finding a community to belong possible. Since joining the furry fandom, I haven't been wanting for a place to belong.

Re: The benefits of not belonging

#16

Honestly does anybody NOT feel alienated in our current society? The US is overly hostile, we imported the whole world and all its cultural hangups with it. I mean if you're white people are shitting on you, if you're black people are shitting on you, if you're male people are shitting on you, if you're female people are shitting on you... like what exactly is this country FOR? Does anybody REALLY feel like they belo…

I am not in the US, but I'm a white male in Australia, so very similar culturally, and no, I don't feel alienated in the least.

So, I'm hoping you are not a white male, as I don't think we can have the tiniest inkling of what it feels like to be a minority. Even travelling in Asia, where we're clearly a minority, I feel like we know on a global scale that even though we may not be the majority of the population, we hold the majority of influence.

So, I don't think we will ever know what it's like. I have curly hair, and I remember my young nieces and nephews being terrified of me. They had never seen curly hair before (well, not a huge afro like I've got). That was my tiny sliver of a taste of being different. But I know, that is nothing, and we still have no idea.

Re: The benefits of not belonging

#17
I also find it valuable…it’s part of the difference between an immigrant mentality and an ex pat mentality.

The third culture insight explains a lot. My life, my mother’s life…

A couple of things didn’t match my experience:

> Then my move to San Francisco in 1999. Definitely an outsider without the Stanford or Berkeley or Ivy League

I definitely don’t understand this unless it’s some weird sf thing. I live in the Vally and it’s not like this.

> “you’ll never belong in Silicon Valley because you are way too international”

Also feels weird to me. I’d guess that 2/3 of the adults in my Palo Alto neighborhood were, like me, born overseas and quite a few had a parapitetic background like the author (and me).

Re: The benefits of not belonging

#18
post #4

Honestly does anybody NOT feel alienated in our current society? The US is overly hostile, we imported the whole world and all its cultural hangups with it. I mean if you're white people are shitting on you, if you're black people are shitting on you, if you're male people are shitting on you, if you're female people are shitting on you... like what exactly is this country FOR? Does anybody REALLY feel like they belo…

I know that was a rhetorical question, but I think low-key rich escapes most of the getting shit on.

Just wait until the richer guy builds a better rocket, then you'll feel shat upon.

Re: The benefits of not belonging

#19
I've always felt on the fringe of whatever group I was associated with. Honestly it doesn't feel that great. But certain times I realize I'm connected to a lot more people, and diverse people than those who are in the center of these various groups. I also feel like I have more integrity, don't have to sell my soul just to belong. YMMV

Re: The benefits of not belonging

#20

Honestly does anybody NOT feel alienated in our current society? The US is overly hostile, we imported the whole world and all its cultural hangups with it. I mean if you're white people are shitting on you, if you're black people are shitting on you, if you're male people are shitting on you, if you're female people are shitting on you... like what exactly is this country FOR? Does anybody REALLY feel like they belo…

> if you're [...] people are shitting on you

Only the identity police do. Most of us don't care.

I'm not my race, sexuality, or gender. I'm what I aspire to, what I enjoy, what I dream about, and who I associate with.

Turn off Twitter, social media, and the pessimistic news. They're toxic vortices that thrive off negativity and create a distorted, untrue picture of the world.

America is still strongly individualistic.

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