Live data from Hacker News

Decentralized Woo Hoo

stephendiehl.com

171–180 of 295 posts

Re: Decentralized Woo Hoo

#171
post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

in the last 24hrs i, - funded an Afghan refugee friend in Turkey with ETH. they have no bank account. - joined a dao to bid on the last privately held copy of the US Constitution. - claimed an airdrop representing some control of a protocol i had used - borrowed stables against volatile collateral - repaid loans, shored up collateral (market went down) - many token swaps (stable stable, volatile stable) the hn crowd…

- funded an Afghan refugee friend in Turkey with ETH. they have no bank account. If they have no bank account, how do they convert ETH into something actually useful to them (presumably Turkish Lira)?

Yeah no, the Turkish Lira is no longer useful.

"The Turkish lira hit its weakest ever level against the US dollar on August 7, trading at 7.36 at one point, having lost nearly 20% of its value since the beginning of the year....The lira has been on life support for the past two years and the economy has continually struggled."

https://theconversation.com/turkeys-collapsing-lira-governme...

Re: Decentralized Woo Hoo

#172

I've heard Vitalik Buterin (Ethereum creator) make the distinction between logical, architectural, and governance decentralization. Crypto projects tend to achieve the second, but not the first or third.[1] A blockchain tends to require centralized logic/code/data structures so that agents can communicate with the same protocol. Architectural means servers. As the OP mentions, this is really the only way in which blo…

> I've heard Vitalik Buterin (Ethereum creator) make the distinction between logical, architectural, and governance decentralization. Crypto projects tend to achieve the second, but not the first or third. This is even worse than it sounds. Crypto projects like DAOs actually make hidden centralization a breeze for well-funded adversaries. If someone has enough money, they can simply take over a DAO by buying enough t…

DAO just means decentralised organisation. Like token, also a very generic term, it can come in many forms. There is nothing inherent about a DAO that even includes tokens, let alone tokens that are fungible or even acquirable.

Re: Decentralized Woo Hoo

#173
post #29

I think the best examples of Decentralized Woo Hoo is the phrase "ownership over your data". When most people hear this they think of facebook selling their data to third parties, using it for targeted advertising, etc. But in the context of blockchains, owning data only means that you own writes to the data. From a read standpoint, all data is essentially open source. I have sole discretion to send you an NFT, but f…

> From a read standpoint, all data is essentially open source Unless you encrypt things you put on blockchain. Or use clever ways to hide information from others. There are cryptocurrencies like Monero.

This is true! But it's also hard to think of a situation in which you would need to store that encrypted data on chain. Why not store it on a central server? Or, encrypted on a p2p network? And if order of events is important, you could just store a hash of the data on chain.

Re: Decentralized Woo Hoo

#174

With El Salvadors requirement that businesses accept Bitcoin, I have come to believe that just about every 3rd world nation without significant military will eventually do the same. Why? Because having your countries currency pegged to the bitcoin is better than being pegged to the dollar. Pegged to the dollar allows the US and allies to devalue your currency to nothing almost immediately. Bitcoin is more risilient t…

Then why have all countries abandoned the gold standard? What makes bitcoin more suitable than gold for this purpose?

Re: Decentralized Woo Hoo

#176
> Advocates of these assets claim crypto platforms will make things trustless, transparent, open, immutable, secure and decentralized.

Perhaps those who have disproportionately consumed libertarian ideology, but those who've studied the longer arc of history know that power abhors a vaccum, and understand destruction and decentralization of institutions as a step on the path to setting different centralized institutions that prioritize a different vision of the world, whether that is ethno-nationalist, theocratic, communist, whatever.

The pure crypto enthusiasts are just helping them along, greasing the skids if you will. Once the increased social entropy weakens institutions enough to reveal a takeover opportunity, all ideas of decentralization will be cast aside because centralized power is too effective.

This attack on existing institutions in order to pave the way for replacement institutions one prefers is omnipresent in history, including the American Revolution and the Bolshevik revolution, both of which fought against the centralized monarchical authority.

The current one is instead fighting against globalist institutions and the multiculturalism and economic leveling they have brought on, which have had very distinct sets of winners and losers.

Re: Decentralized Woo Hoo

#177
post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

in the last 24hrs i, - funded an Afghan refugee friend in Turkey with ETH. they have no bank account. - joined a dao to bid on the last privately held copy of the US Constitution. - claimed an airdrop representing some control of a protocol i had used - borrowed stables against volatile collateral - repaid loans, shored up collateral (market went down) - many token swaps (stable stable, volatile stable) the hn crowd…

- funded an Afghan refugee friend in Turkey with ETH. they have no bank account. If they have no bank account, how do they convert ETH into something actually useful to them (presumably Turkish Lira)?

they use https://localcryptos.com

Re: Decentralized Woo Hoo

#178
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Algorand is carbon negative: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NykZ-ZSKkxM

Yes, the laboratory would be fine if it weren't for BTC and ETH. Experiment away! But not with mega-scale proof-of-work projects that consume ungodly resource as a byproduct of securing the network (which is a financial problem in any case)

> Experiment away! But not with mega-scale proof-of-work projects

Are you familiar with any methods to achieve the same characteristics of Bitcoin but without PoW? Perhaps the energy is not the issue, perhaps it's your view to the importance of it.

Re: Decentralized Woo Hoo

#179
post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fiat currency, in essence, is equally valueless. It only has inherent value because enough people agree that it does. Bitcoin is no different (and in fact has several advantages over fiat, giving it further value).

Well, not quite. It has inherent value since fiat is guaranteed to be backed by the full faith and credit of the backing nation. That is, by holding fiat, you trust that the country issuing that fiat doesn't default (and will hence guarantee that value). I don't see a similar parallel with crypto, though I'd love to be corrected.

When currency inflation gets out of control, there is often not much the issuing country can do to stop it.

Re: Decentralized Woo Hoo

#180

History replays itself every new invention or enlightment humans have. Over the past centuries many have been persecuted for studying chemistry, astronomy, physics and even biology. Think of Galileo who was persecuted for advaing the theory that the Earth was round. Crypto embodies a new paradigm whereby rules can be programmed and enforced by computers. Instead of relying on centralized human authorities to measure,…

The rule of law is NOT "coded into the protocol", and you absolutely can cheat the system. In fact, it's far easier to cheat crypto "law" than real law, for several reasons:

1. Real law is not executed by a computer, but by a highly educated judge that can actually interpret the law and contracts, and reject attempts to exploit them. Smart contracts are easily exploited. 2. Real law has a process called "discovery", which is how the legal system gets to determine the facts of the case. This works specifically because of coercive force[0]. Crypto "law" is entirely at the mercy of trusted oracles to inject facts onto the blockchain so that smart contracts can execute correctly. 3. Impersonation is far harder in real law than crypto. In the crypto world, your identity is merely a collection of private keys. These are easily copied[1], and it is common practice for criminals to automate the theft of cryptocurrency because crypto identity is so fragile. 4. Crypto "law" is immutable, which means that if it gets things wrong (very likely because of the above), there is no recourse to change things[2]. In real law, transactions can be reversed and bad rulings appealed, at least for a little while.

Until you can make crypto law that can actually do the above things, I will continue to consider it untrustworthy, if not outright unethical to promote. You may have noticed that a lot of those things run counter to the spirit of decentralization... to which I say, that is the point. The financial system evolved to be a centralized one because centralization is more efficient. Central authorities can prosecute frauds that decentralized crowds cannot.

For example, Bitcoin has no protection against someone making their own fork of the software and minting another 21M coins. This has happened many times over; some of those forks are even branded the same way as Bitcoin[3]. You may argue that this constitutes some kind of fraud, but... you can't really stop it with crypto law; and people fall for them all the time. Hell, some of those altcoins are actually somewhat viable. How is this not a form of dilution or debasement?

[0] Specifically, an escalating scale of sanctions and punishments that make refusing to participate in discovery a very bad idea.

[1] I am aware of the existence of hardware intended to prevent the theft of shining keys. I personally find it offensive that the best argument for using crypto is "lock up your keys with the same DRM shit copyright maximalists use and you'll be fine".

[2] The closest thing we've seen to crypto actually adjudicating crime was the DAO hack, which more or less only worked specifically because crypto is NOT actually decentralized - the developers still dictate the protocol.

[3] Examples: Bitcoin Cash, Bitcoin Gold, Bitconnect, Bitcoin SV.

Post reply on HN