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Decentralized Woo Hoo

stephendiehl.com

91–100 of 295 posts

Re: Decentralized Woo Hoo

#91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your last point (everything in smart contracts) I just can't understand. I personally wouldn't want to live in a world where the "computer says no", and even if a court and Jury disagrees, it's impossible to change. Similarly (and it's already happened several times), what happens when someone finds a loophole and drains the entire GDP of a country into their account? Do we say "Oh, well that's what the smart contrac…

The smart contracts you are seeing now are relatively simple programs and are woefully insufficient for nation-state level use. Imagine a future with multiple levels of smart contracts that allow for court intervention and arbitration. It starts to resemble the checks and balances we have in place now, but the rules are public and codified.

> but the rules are public and codified.

You mean like, say, the current system of laws we have? (:

Sure, laws are strange and arcane and require expertise to translate them into understandable terms, but any form of code has the exact same problem.

Re: Decentralized Woo Hoo

#92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your last point (everything in smart contracts) I just can't understand. I personally wouldn't want to live in a world where the "computer says no", and even if a court and Jury disagrees, it's impossible to change. Similarly (and it's already happened several times), what happens when someone finds a loophole and drains the entire GDP of a country into their account? Do we say "Oh, well that's what the smart contrac…

I agree, you wouldn't want a world where either of those two scenarios you mention are possible. But are those examples inescapable risks inherent to having smart contracts? Or does the design of current smart contracts lack maturity in such a way that allows for problems similar to the ones you mention? Maybe better smart contract design could arise that prevents these issues.

I think the case that they are inescapable risks is pretty strong. I think the history of formal design and software engineering is pretty clear that the designing a foolproof system is effectively and practically speaking impossible except for extremely small, extremely isolated problem spaces.

I don't think smart contracts are in that space and I don't think any level of maturity is going to get you there.

Re: Decentralized Woo Hoo

#93
The big two, India and China account for 3B people would never need Crypto at all. Their own mobile payment systems are thriving.

India's system which was launched in 2016 clocks in 4B+ transcations per month, grows 100% YOY.

A lot of developing countries have their mobile systems which are far better than Crypto.

Re: Decentralized Woo Hoo

#95
> If you see government overreach as a fundamental societal problem … you’ll find an answer in decentralization.

I do not really get this. Decentralization in government just moves the power from one level of government to another (so overreach is the same), and usually the local government is less accountable, as most public scrutiny is focused on the central government.

Re: Decentralized Woo Hoo

#96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why I support crypto. I view it as a laboratory where we can experiment with ideas around finance and governance. Many of the currently accepted ideas around these topics came from a pre-internet world. However, myself and others think that certain technologies have changed the game. Maybe we need government or maybe we don't. Maybe we need a centralized currency, maybe we don't. The thing is we won't really…

Your laboratory has run for 12 years and is currently consuming 0.5% of the world energy output and 20% of new GPUs. All of that without a popular usecase yet. Except for financial speculation, finance-of-last-resort, and crime. I would say that laboratory is not using the research grants well.

Algorand is carbon negative: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NykZ-ZSKkxM

Re: Decentralized Woo Hoo

#97
History replays itself every new invention or enlightment humans have. Over the past centuries many have been persecuted for studying chemistry, astronomy, physics and even biology. Think of Galileo who was persecuted for advaing the theory that the Earth was round.

Crypto embodies a new paradigm whereby rules can be programmed and enforced by computers. Instead of relying on centralized human authorities to measure, control and enforce, the rule of "law" is coded into the protocol. No one can cheat. The only way to change the "law" is for every player to agree to change the protocol. Through concensus.

For example Bitcoin with its fixed supply of 21M coins which prevents dillution and debasement. No human can change that unless, there is a concensus to change the protocol. You see humans still have control, but only if we all agree.

We are living a unique human experiment with Crypto. I really wish people would stop bashing the industry and instead join in the experiment.

Remember that evolution and innovation is innevitable. The financial system currently controlled by humans will get disrupted by technology. Crypto turns finance onto its head. Fascinating.

Re: Decentralized Woo Hoo

#98
>The Dirac equation has nothing to say about the phenomenon of mind except to describe the chemistry that gives rise to it.

On the contrary, the question of mind is precisely what is at stake in our investigation of the particle-wave nature of the electron.

"From the point of view of wave mechanics, the infinite array of possible point paths would be merely fictitious, none of them would have the prerogative over the others of being that really traveled in an individual case. I have, however, already mentioned that we have yet really observed such individual particle paths in some cases. The wave theory can represent this, either not at all or only very imperfectly. We find it confoundedly difficult to interpret the traces we see as nothing more than narrow bundles of equally possible paths between which the wave surfaces establish cross-connections. Yet, these cross-connections are necessary for an understanding of the diffraction and interference phenomena which can be demonstrated for the same particle with the same plausibility -- and that on a large scale, not just as a consequence of the theoretical ideas about the interior of the atom, which we mentioned earlier. Conditions are admittedly such that we can always manage to make do in each concrete individual case without the two different aspects leading to different expectations as to the result of certain experiments. We cannot, however, manage to make do with such old, familiar, and seemingly indispensable terms as "real" or "only possible"; we are never in a position to say what really is or what really happens, but we can only say what will be observed in any concrete individual case. Will we have to be permanently satisfied with this...? On principle, yes. On principle, there is nothing new in the postulate that in the end exact science should aim at nothing more than the description of what can really be observed. The question is only whether from now on we shall have to refrain from tying description to a clear hypothesis about the real nature of the world. There are many who wish to pronounce such abdication even today. But I believe that this means making things a little too easy for oneself."

The Fundamental Idea of Wave Mechanics (Schrodinger 1923)

Re: Decentralized Woo Hoo

#99
post #86
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> However some people interested in and working on blockchain and related technologies are pursuing ambitious goals that could reshape the economy and politics in ways that makes them more open to participation and "strongly typed"/formalized. That's great! Could you provide some details on what these projects might be and how they aim to reshape political and economic life to be more open, formal, and participatory?…

One example is https://www.proofofhumanity.id . Their token is also an UBI implementation.

[deleted]

Re: Decentralized Woo Hoo

#100

I think this is a fair criticism to a limited extent, the crypto world is full of useless memecoins that don't have value beyond serving as gambling games. However some people interested in and working on blockchain and related technologies are pursuing ambitious goals that could reshape the economy and politics in ways that makes them more open to participation and "strongly typed"/formalized. Achieving these goals…

I am actually a rare breed excited about the potential about cryptocurrency here on HN. That said, when I go through your example, I don’t see much difference from the current system despite the illusion that it’s different. > appropriate taxation of a transaction is built into a smart contract So, like sales tax. Which we have uniform and open laws for. Or income tax. Which we have uniform and open laws for. > every…

"So, like sales tax. Which we have uniform and open laws for. Or income tax. Which we have uniform and open laws for."

Laws are not mechanisms, proof of transaction, records etc..

'Smart Contracts' as something unassailable in courts are ridiculous obviously.

But 'smart contracts' that facilitate micro-transactions, every day purchases, and flow through the system without human interaction seem like a good idea.

Imagine when you buy that thing on your Business Visa, and the 'smart contract' is signed, sent to head office, sent to your accounting software, balanced, money in your bank account immediately etc.. All with a series of signed elements.

I understand that's not exactly what it's supposed to look like, but that's the kind of thing I see happening.

While you could say 'there should be a standard for that' it might be that the standards are not nimble enough, and a more generic 'start contract' system could work to tie it all together.

And maybe importantly: to skip VISA and classical banks while we're at it.

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