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Decentralized Woo Hoo

stephendiehl.com

31–40 of 295 posts

Re: Decentralized Woo Hoo

#31

Maybe the title should be updated. It doesn't have anything to do with decentralization per se, but about cryptocurrencies, which is just a technology that happens to use decentralization as a technology. I actually thought the article was gonna be about decentralization (as in P2P technology, like BitTorrent), but instead it's about the authors distaste for cryptocurrencies. Edit: Maybe it's just me, but the article…

Normally when we use the phrase "conflict of interest," we use it to imply a conflict between parties. One of the parties in your account is the blog author and/or their company; who is the other? The cryptocurrency community? They aren't a party in the traditional sense, and the concept weakens further when we consider the press campaign among cryptocurrency fans to rebrand their schemes as transaction substrates.

Framed as such, this seems more like an impassioned technical rebuke from an informed individual than a "conflict of interest."

Re: Decentralized Woo Hoo

#32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> clear conflict of interest That's not a conflict of interest.

The company (Adjoint, Inc) is described as "digitises cash and settlement processes", something that cryptocurrencies aim to do as well. His company clearly doesn't use decentralization (since why would he make a post against it?), which cryptocurrencies do. How is that not a conflict of interest in this specific blogpost? Reading the post it seems like he has no stake in the outcome of what people think about crypto…

The repo/company you linked is about utilizing zero knowledge proofs which is literally the best we've got in regards to decentralization.

If anything, that gives him credentials to talk about it?

Re: Decentralized Woo Hoo

#33
Can't wait for the day when crypto becomes a footnote in history and the Deepak Chopras of this world are resigned to obscurity where they belong.

Re: Decentralized Woo Hoo

#34

OP seems to have no idea about DeFI. You can lend and borrow on compound.finance, aave. You can play no-loss lotteries like PoolTogether. You can bet on your beliefs and hedge your investments on markets platforms like Polymarket. You can gamble. More on: https://ethereum.org/en/dapps/ . All of this without any arbitrary restrictions imposed by governments or companies, you just need an internet connection. How can y…

> All of this without any arbitrary restrictions imposed by governments or companies

Is that true? Is gambling now legal in jurisdictions where it wasn't before because it's being facilitated by unlicensed entities? Can I do an end-run against money-lending regulations in my country because I'm doing it online?

To me it simply seems that enforcement hasn't (yet) caught up.

Re: Decentralized Woo Hoo

#35
this guy automatically associates for me with crypto-fudster and of course the very next post of his i see is more "criticism" of crypto.

not that there's nothing to criticize crypto projects for, but this particular argument is very meh. projects that advertise as being decentralized but aren't will eventually collapse. projects that advertise as decentralized and do attempt to be decentralized - are solving some truly hard problems, both technically and socially. something to learn from, not dismiss hand-wavingly.

Re: Decentralized Woo Hoo

#36

He has some good points, I am also very suspicious of crypto but also a fan of IPFS, I guess I am conflicted.

The solution crypto assets propose is creating incentives for collaboration. Items on IPFS only remain lively as long as someone is willing to pin a particular bit of content and is ultimately doing so on a charitable basis. That's not nothing, but you can't scale to the whole internet that way.

If you can create incentives to collaborate and participate in the storing and caching of those bits, now you've got a mechanism to scale far beyond what you could achieve on benevolence alone.

Re: Decentralized Woo Hoo

#37
I think this is a fair criticism to a limited extent, the crypto world is full of useless memecoins that don't have value beyond serving as gambling games.

However some people interested in and working on blockchain and related technologies are pursuing ambitious goals that could reshape the economy and politics in ways that makes them more open to participation and "strongly typed"/formalized. Achieving these goals is not the same as "decentralization" but more about a concept where you start from a decentralized and open base (blockchain) and build structures atop that base that are appropriately balanced between centralized and decentralized.

This is all very ambitious and may fail utterly and completely. But if it does succeed there will be a period where people have wild ambitious visions about what could be while the technology progresses to actualize those visions at what appears to be a slow pace.

To provide a specific ambitious vision: you could have a world where appropriate taxation of a transaction is built into a smart contract and everything from deciding on how to spend that tax money to the project management for the efforts those tax dollars fund is conducted in the open by people who have achieved various types of stakeholder status. Actually creating a system that allows for this and doesn't have tons of other problems will take time.

Re: Decentralized Woo Hoo

#38
I liked the Haskell content on his blog, I'm not sure about his new political line against crypto. This started a bit more than a year ago with this post https://www.stephendiehl.com/posts/crypto.html, which ends on a bizarre claim about a link between crypto and right-wing extremism:

> David Golumbia’s excellent book The Politics of Bitcoin: Software as Right-Wing Extremism outlines the rabbit-hole effect that this ecosystem is having on software engineers onboarding them into deeper forms of right-wing extremism.

This is not crypto-specific, I'd rather read software blogs than political blogs in general. In the spirit of Drew DeVault (https://drewdevault.com/2021/04/26/Cryptocurrency-is-a-disas...), I'll disclose my stake in cryptocurrency: I currently own ~1000€ in Bitcoin, that I bought for something like 800€ earlier in the year. Those ~200€ are the only profit I made on crypto. I use Monero from time to time for stuff where Monero is useful.

Re: Decentralized Woo Hoo

#39
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That centralized exchanges exists doesn't somehow make decentralized cryptocurrencies less decentralized. Just like how centralized social media doesn't make decentralized social media less decentralized.

Crytocurrencies are effectively useless without centralized exchanges. Change my mind. Social media doesn't need to interop between centralized and decentralized, but currencies do if they want to be useable. At the end of the day, someone will want to actually _buy_ something, and unfortunately I can't go to Petco and use my Dogecoin to buy dogfood.

I will add my own: cryptocurrencies are useless without a legal framework, which requires a central entity with power ensuring that there is fairness, i.e. the government. Change my mind.

P.S. Banking will also still be needed.

In any case, these are social issues and Decentralized Woo Hoo is a great name for it, as decentralization does not solve any of these issues. There is value to "digital cash", but not in the capacity that all these projects claim.

Re: Decentralized Woo Hoo

#40
When honest articles draw ire, it is a tell-tale sign.

Like Walter from The Big Lebowski, crypto fans claim "Calmer than you" while internally seething at The Dude's honest callout of their inconsistencies.

Maybe rather than coming at the author from every possible angle to somehow discredit his observations, stop and consider he's making an extremely valid analogy: all of us have encountered at least one "quantium woo" acolyte in our lifetime, and realizing that you might be that person but with a different woo is upsetting, but important.

The most potent statement of the article: "There is no meme that you won’t find an answer for because how someone sees decentralization is like a Rorschach for their fears and tragic flaws."

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