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Divorce does funny things

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Re: Divorce does funny things

#181

Post by thelastgallon »

cm2012 wrote: post #58

On infidelity - to some extent people's personal business is not my business. But if I hear that someone was unfaithful to their spouse, my business trust in them goes waaay down. If they're willing to break trust with the person closest to them in their life, what chance do I have as a mere business partner of not being screwed over at some point?

How do you feel about immigrants? All nations indoctrinate their citizens for decades: you must be loyal, patriotic, etc. Yet we see immigrants. At what point is it ok to do business with an immigrant? After they get their citizenship (2 decades)?

What about American citizens with dual citizenship? Is it ok to do business with them?

People who start their job search before quitting their current job? Should they be considered at all for employment.

People who convert from their religion at birth? Can they be trusted?

Is it ok to be unfaithful before marriage (dating/cohabiting), before you met the person you are supposed to be with the rest of your life? Is it ok to be unfaithful after marriage has ended (dating/marriage)?

Re: Divorce does funny things

#182

Post by throwaway211116 »

jterrys wrote: post #120
romeros wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's only that black and white to you because of your naivety and a lack of understanding of how the world really works. The solution for this as for many other things is to switch off the computer and actually go out and experience the world and become more worldly. Otherwise, you will end up building a mental model of reality that quite doesn't exist.

You were right to hide behind a throwaway account. It's honestly quite easy to construct scenarios where cheating is entirely rational. But even the mere idea of such things make people revel with disgust. I don't expect to change anyone's point of view, but I will provide a very simple example to at least frame the mindset of a potential cheater: "You are happily married to your partner but after a few years your se…

Your example showcases a relationship that is perfect in all aspects other than sexual. Many relationships are not that. In many relationships emotions may go sour, trust may fade, etc. before sex becomes dysfunctional (think about the existence of makeup sex), all while both partners choose to remain in the relationship for entirely rational reasons. And as time passes, making the choice of divorce becomes harder and harder. But indeed, the topic of is so very nuanced even in cases like the example. From an outside viewpoint, there theoretically might be better alternatives but people are complicated.

A divorce, at least in the short term, is a lose-lose proposition, except:

- cases where either one is in a life threatening situation (most usually women due to domestic violence - a death-lose situation)

- cases where the law allows one to have net gains at the expense of the other and do so repeatedly (in this case marriage and divorce become a wealth transfer strategy - a win-lose situation)

In the above example, theoretically, transitioning to an open relationship would be a better alternative, allowing both partners to compartmentalize the dysfunctional parts of the relationship. But this solution is not always plausible. Proposing such a solution is not plausible in many cases. Even pondering such a solution may not be plausible in many situations. Because, in many cases, simply having it known, that such an idea was given though, is enough to unravel relationships. See all the comments that vilify "emotional cheating".

Re: Divorce does funny things

#183

Post by quietbritishjim »

thelastgallon wrote: post #181
cm2012 wrote: post #58

On infidelity - to some extent people's personal business is not my business. But if I hear that someone was unfaithful to their spouse, my business trust in them goes waaay down. If they're willing to break trust with the person closest to them in their life, what chance do I have as a mere business partner of not being screwed over at some point?

How do you feel about immigrants? All nations indoctrinate their citizens for decades: you must be loyal, patriotic, etc. Yet we see immigrants. At what point is it ok to do business with an immigrant? After they get their citizenship (2 decades)? What about American citizens with dual citizenship? Is it ok to do business with them? People who start their job search before quitting their current job? Should they be c…

> All nations indoctrinate their citizens for decades

What has this got to do with anything? Being told by your country you should feel a certain way is a one-sided arrangement. It's totally unrelated to voluntarily deciding to make a promise to someone, and arranging for all your friends and relatives (and god, if that makes sense to you) to be present while you make that promise.

Re: Divorce does funny things

#184

Post by Drakim »

thelastgallon wrote: post #181
cm2012 wrote: post #58

On infidelity - to some extent people's personal business is not my business. But if I hear that someone was unfaithful to their spouse, my business trust in them goes waaay down. If they're willing to break trust with the person closest to them in their life, what chance do I have as a mere business partner of not being screwed over at some point?

How do you feel about immigrants? All nations indoctrinate their citizens for decades: you must be loyal, patriotic, etc. Yet we see immigrants. At what point is it ok to do business with an immigrant? After they get their citizenship (2 decades)? What about American citizens with dual citizenship? Is it ok to do business with them? People who start their job search before quitting their current job? Should they be c…

A relationship or marriage is something personally that you decide to commit to. You are making a promise to them, a commitment to that person, on the very deepest level.

You are implying that the national indoctrination is the same, but it's obviously not. Lots of people have to listen to that indoctrination but doesn't agree with it. Loyalty cannot be broken when it was not given in the first place.

Re: Divorce does funny things

#185

Post by merpnderp »

atoav wrote: post #143
rich_sasha wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t know. What if the partner is a bad, manipulative actor, but it is just too difficult to dissolve the marriage? For the sake of children, financial commitments, costs, unfair legacy laws and so on? It’s certainly not unheard of, so I’ll keep sweeping personality assessments based on cheating at bay. There’s clearly also other reasons, I’m not saying cheating partners are always poor martyrs of circumstance.

Technically everything can be used to establish a (operational) perception of a person — and everything can be wrong. Someone wears a Rolex? Maybe they are rich and want to show off, maybe they inherited it from a dying family member. If they however additionally drive a super car, wear designer clothes the likelyhood of alternative explainations goes down. If someone is a nice, cordial and all around good person and…

I mean sure good people can break sworn vows and lie to the person closest in their lives. For some definitions of good. But I’d never trust them.

Re: Divorce does funny things

#186

Post by _zn02 »

thelastgallon wrote: post #181
cm2012 wrote: post #58

On infidelity - to some extent people's personal business is not my business. But if I hear that someone was unfaithful to their spouse, my business trust in them goes waaay down. If they're willing to break trust with the person closest to them in their life, what chance do I have as a mere business partner of not being screwed over at some point?

How do you feel about immigrants? All nations indoctrinate their citizens for decades: you must be loyal, patriotic, etc. Yet we see immigrants. At what point is it ok to do business with an immigrant? After they get their citizenship (2 decades)? What about American citizens with dual citizenship? Is it ok to do business with them? People who start their job search before quitting their current job? Should they be c…

Immigrants: you don't get to choose where you're born. Dual citizenship seems similar. I see no particular reason to consider "allegiance to the government" as a matter of trustworthiness, barring actual treason.

Job search: this is a real topic of debate in the business world already, but seems pretty commonly accepted due to the deteriorating nature of employer-employee relationships.

Religious conversions: the "you don't get to choose birth religion" argument from above combined with the inherently illogical nature of religion makes this one nearly impossible to judge on.

Unfaithful before marriage: seems pretty easy to toss this into the same category as "unfaithful during marriage".

Not trying to be flippant, but I genuinely do see basically all of the cases you listed as strictly less serious than being unfaithful during a committed relationship.

Re: Divorce does funny things

#187

Post by teddyh »

88840-8855 wrote: post #64
cm2012 wrote: post #58

On infidelity - to some extent people's personal business is not my business. But if I hear that someone was unfaithful to their spouse, my business trust in them goes waaay down. If they're willing to break trust with the person closest to them in their life, what chance do I have as a mere business partner of not being screwed over at some point?

i think that's a little naive. cheating is a highly emotional thing. business relationships are a rational thing. although some people are mixing both up, most of people i have worked with manage to separate. one of my moost loyal colleagues is cheating on his wife for years. and yet, he is loyal to the tasks and to the company. hence, i find your view a little naive and funny and perhaps would label it with some -is…

> one of my moost loyal colleagues is cheating on his wife for years. and yet, he is loyal to the tasks and to the company.

His wife: “My husband is cheating at work and scamming his company, and yet he is the most loyal husband to me and our kid.”

Re: Divorce does funny things

#188

Post by Damogran6 »

dlsa wrote: post #87
lelanthran wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been through it, there's nothing you can do and if the mother is really out for blood she will use your child against you. Women get rights, men get obligations.

When the child support ends a lot of power the state grants women to tear apart a mans life also evaporates. There's a possibility of a silver lining when child support ends. Divorced men need to remember that. Often times its the very start of men resuming a relationship with the children they've been blocked from seeing for all those years. If men comtemplating suicide could realise this and see it as the light at…

I think that’s a truism that more people need to hear… “This, too, shall pass.”

I was struggling with identity and responsibility when the kids were young and and extremely helpful person on a forum told me that my life would not forever be “swamped husband supporting family with young kids”…or even “parents in a faily of four”…sure I’m still a father of two kids, but they’re off doing their own things and my relationship with my wife is a LOT more like the one I had as a couple, before being parents.

Re: Divorce does funny things

#189

Post by tim333 »

thelastgallon wrote: post #181
cm2012 wrote: post #58

On infidelity - to some extent people's personal business is not my business. But if I hear that someone was unfaithful to their spouse, my business trust in them goes waaay down. If they're willing to break trust with the person closest to them in their life, what chance do I have as a mere business partner of not being screwed over at some point?

How do you feel about immigrants? All nations indoctrinate their citizens for decades: you must be loyal, patriotic, etc. Yet we see immigrants. At what point is it ok to do business with an immigrant? After they get their citizenship (2 decades)? What about American citizens with dual citizenship? Is it ok to do business with them? People who start their job search before quitting their current job? Should they be c…

That's a rather odd way of looking at it.

Re: Divorce does funny things

#190

Post by toyg »

ookdatnog wrote: post #173
lordnacho wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But if I hear that someone was unfaithful to their spouse, my business trust in them goes waaay down. Same here. I actually don't know why it doesn't seem to affect people's thoughts about politicians. People are absolutely willing to separate what they know about a person's personal life from what they think about that person's politics. For me it's a scarlet letter. I get maybe an hour of talk about each candidat…

I liked this scene from the Danish movie "Druk" https://youtu.be/iS4CHNHm9a0 .

"Vegetarians Hate This One Trick" when I bring up that they share the habit with "candidate 3".
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