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Togo made a digital government stimulus system in two weeks

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Re: Togo made a digital government stimulus system in two weeks

#121
post #53
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GiveDirectly's studies in developing countries are quite compelling, but I don't believed they've published any studies about the US yet.

Temporarily correct. I am eagerly awaiting the publication of results from "Evaluating one-time cash transfers to U.S. households during the COVID-19 pandemic", which has the trials completed, and analysis underway. However, they have had previous programs of their own that ran in the US, such as their Hurricane Harvey relief programs. (Which haven't turned into research papers).

Much more important is the new Child Tax Credit ($3000 per year).

Re: Togo made a digital government stimulus system in two weeks

#122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"Americans are so concerned with accidentally helping someone who doesn't deserve it that they'd rather sacrifice the well being of millions who do" This reads like hyperbole and cynicism. Americans as a whole donate a large amount to charity each year and the United States already has wide-ranging social welfare programs. I challenge the use of the word "accidentally", because there are legitimate concerns about de…

I am speaking in generalities because I don't know your exact stance on everything. The American military budget is so massively over-bloated its sickening. No only that, they made 35 Trillion dollars in adjustments in 2019 alone. The year before they made 30 Trillion dollars in adjustments. In 2018 the pentagon failed its first ever independent audit, instead of releasing the report, they changed their own rules to…

Money skimmed from the Pentagon budget is money not spent actively blowing up poor brown people abroad.

Re: Togo made a digital government stimulus system in two weeks

#123
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This would be a powerful point with a reference - can you cite it?

Poverty line = $12,880/yr : https://aspe.hhs.gov/topics/poverty-economic-mobility/povert... "A $12,880 income in the United States has enough buying power to put you in the 84th percentile globally for per-person income" : https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2018/business/global...

[deleted]

Re: Togo made a digital government stimulus system in two weeks

#124
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you really cared about the poor, you would voluntarily donate money from your own pocket; you don't need a law for that. Instead, you want to use the legislator to compel the others to the involuntary distribution of their hard-earned money. Why "instead"? Why can this person not both donate directly and wish that everyone else were obligated to do the same?

Our nation is founded on liberty. > Why can this person not both donate directly and wish that everyone else were obligated to do the same? You are proposing the imposition of your ideals onto someone else, via theft, under the penalty of governmental violence/incarceration. The poster suggested that you take on the personal responsibility for righting what you perceive as an injustice in the world. I agree with them…

> Our nation is founded on liberty.

I suspect we live in different nations, then.

> You are proposing the imposition of your ideals onto someone else, via theft, under the penalty of governmental violence/incarceration.

Is this your opinion of all taxes? If so, I'm surprised you manage to function day-to-day.

Re: Togo made a digital government stimulus system in two weeks

#125
post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The issue is that in the west, and particular in the US, being poor is considered a character flaw. This is the Just world hypothesis in action.¹ 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just-world_hypothesis

No, it’s Protestantism and the pernicious concept of grace as opposed to good works in Judaism, Catholic/Orthodox Christianity or Islam. If you are poor, you must be cursed by God and therefore deserve everything that happens to you. What’s more, the elect who have grace are entitled to make your life even worse for their benefit.

This is incorrect. Your comment references certain points of Calvinist doctrine but grossly misinterprets them.

Re: Togo made a digital government stimulus system in two weeks

#126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Our nation is founded on liberty. > Why can this person not both donate directly and wish that everyone else were obligated to do the same? You are proposing the imposition of your ideals onto someone else, via theft, under the penalty of governmental violence/incarceration. The poster suggested that you take on the personal responsibility for righting what you perceive as an injustice in the world. I agree with them…

> Our nation is founded on liberty. I suspect we live in different nations, then. > You are proposing the imposition of your ideals onto someone else, via theft, under the penalty of governmental violence/incarceration. Is this your opinion of all taxes? If so, I'm surprised you manage to function day-to-day.

> I suspect we live in different nations, then.

""" The American republic was founded on a set of beliefs that were tested during the Revolutionary War. Among them was the idea that all people are created equal, whether European, Native American, or African American, and that these people have fundamental rights, such as liberty, free speech, freedom of religion, due process of law, and freedom of assembly. America’s revolutionaries openly discussed these concepts. Many Americans agreed with them but some found that the ideology was far more acceptable in the abstract than in practice. """ https://www.loc.gov/exhibits/creating-the-united-states/foun...

> Is this your opinion of all taxes? If so, I'm surprised you manage to function day-to-day.

I am of the belief that taxes are appropriate to fund the limited function that the government was designed to fulfill. Namely goods/services which are public, such as providing national defense and a legal system for enforcing the number one principle, "voluntary transactions okay. Involuntary transactions not okay."

I am fine with taxes so long as they are providing a public good which cannot be met by the private sector due to factors such as nonexcludability. The types of things that are covered by that statement include things like national defense and law/policing such that the state can arbitrate on enforcement of private contracts as well as provide punishment for involuntary harm caused on a 3rd party.

In fact, that is the primary reason the founders were specific in direct vs. indirect taxes. Such a distinction provides clarity around how much of a public good can be created and how they can be paid for in a relatively fair fashion. Excise taxes are primarily consumption based, and all indirect taxes are subject to apportionment. Hence the absurdity of the 16th ammendment.

I do not consider wealth redistribution a function of the government, especially on the national level, as it is specifically excludable.

Re: Togo made a digital government stimulus system in two weeks

#127
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This would be a powerful point with a reference - can you cite it?

Poverty line = $12,880/yr : https://aspe.hhs.gov/topics/poverty-economic-mobility/povert... "A $12,880 income in the United States has enough buying power to put you in the 84th percentile globally for per-person income" : https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2018/business/global...

On a whim, I looked into poverty-level taxation by plugging $12,880 into various online tax [gu]estimate calculators. Results varied from -$114 to $1080 (FICA included). Short of running it thru a real tax program (which I will in due course), struck me how US income tax law presumes you will pay at least a 10% tax rate, even if below the poverty line. https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/irs-provides-tax-inflation-adju... I assume a little finesse with a 1040EZ form should get it down to $0, but it's unsettling that legislators who unanimously agree "something should be done for the poor" actually legislate a 10% tax rate on the poor.

Re: Togo made a digital government stimulus system in two weeks

#128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In part because we have used regulations to require you to be rich. In India the cheapest new street legal car is the Tato Nano, around $2500 (maybe small electric cars from China even less). But the cheapest new car in the US is the Chevy Spark at $13-14k. Building codes and zoning regulations mean there’s a minimum price you have to pay for housing in the US that’s around a factor of 10 higher than in much of the w…

>"In part because we have used regulations to require you to be rich." I understand the sentiment, but I feel like this line of reasoning puts oneself into a catch-22. The first reaction would be to say "well, let's start slashing regulations". However, I suspect people who support the idea that there are regulations that "require you to be rich" would recoil at the idea of trimming things like ADA accessibility, nee…

Positive should not mean compulsory. Compulsory does not mean good. Let people opt out of regulations as they see fit. Let me have a home, if regulations would make it unattainable.
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