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Divorce does funny things

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Re: Divorce does funny things

#151

Post by bartvk »

hunterb123 wrote: post #125
ThalesX wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would you know if it’s consensual or not? Perhaps they are in an open marriage. I think rushing to conclusions and acting on those is scarier in a business partner, than how they choose to live their personal life.

I think unfaithful was the keyword, if it is consensual and open then the partner wasn't unfaithful. I'd assume GP would only hold this judgement for someone cheating, not swinging. The main point was trust. Trust is earned. Whether you break a promise with your life partner or your business partner, you've destroyed a chunk of your reputation.

But how do you know it was unfaithful? Lots of open relationships don’t broadcast this fact due to the stigma and taboo around it. Plus, OP said they’d go on hearsay.

Re: Divorce does funny things

#152

Post by claudiawerner »

bruceb wrote: post #115
jimmaswell wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Relationship market seems like it's the best it's ever been, from a standpoint of equality, that is. What makes you say this? Last I heard the trend of it getting harder and harder for men has been continuing. When one side has to go crazy going to the gym and making themselves interesting and whatever to stand out while the other side just has to put one blurry picture with no text on any dating site to get inunda…

HN being tech oriented, thus male commenters tend to live in gender skewed cities. Bay Area, Seattle, etc for the 25-45 age range. Where yes some men might have harder time. But really there are approximately same amount of men to women in the dating/family making age group. Being normal, mildly interesting, and not a slob is all most men will have to do to find women to date. The reason a some men don't get dates on…

It might just be an artefact of dating sites/apps, but I think that GP takes that into account with the supposition (I don't know if it is/can be shown with hard data) that women on such sites don't even have to be particularly normal, or mildly interesting.

It's also a bit of a catch-22. Say you want to become 'mildly interesting' (for the purposes of dating). So you quit video games after work, and you join some club activities. The activities don't really interest you, but at least you're "working on yourself" to become more interesting. You burn out because it's hard to magically find interest in something you just don't care for.

Personally, I don't mind guys whose interests are gaming or some generally solitary (generally male) activity like programming. But I don't think that's the case for the majority of women, though.

Say a guy gets fed up with dating apps/sites. "Get out there!" and "Just be yourself!" people will tell him. Again, he joins activities that have a fairer balance of men and women to the activities he's usually interested in (video game events, chess clubs, hackathons). Think yoga classes, fiction book clubs, gym activity groups.

Again, he has to force himself to enjoy the activity, and simultaneously never let it slip that actually he's there to improve his chances of finding a date (nor can he risk hitting on anyone, lest word gets out).

For what it's worth, I have several male friends who custom-tailor polite messages for each person they're interested in, mentioning what they read in the bio field, and never get responses.

Re: Divorce does funny things

#153

Post by WastingMyTime89 »

cm2012 wrote: post #58

On infidelity - to some extent people's personal business is not my business. But if I hear that someone was unfaithful to their spouse, my business trust in them goes waaay down. If they're willing to break trust with the person closest to them in their life, what chance do I have as a mere business partner of not being screwed over at some point?

> But if I hear that someone was unfaithful to their spouse, my business trust in them goes waaay down.

> If they're willing to break trust with the person closest to them in their life, what chance do I have as a mere business partner of not being screwed over at some point?

That's a very American perspective. People position on extramarital affair is extremely culturaly dependant.

It goes from deep public revulsion despite statitics showing people massively cheat in the extremely puritanical USA to silent acceptance in a "what I don't know don't hurt me" in part of Europe.

People business life and private life are not the same things. I would avoid making too many black-and-white extreme judgments based on things you necessarily have a very narrow view.

Re: Divorce does funny things

#154

Post by nindalf »

lordnacho wrote: post #122
cm2012 wrote: post #58

On infidelity - to some extent people's personal business is not my business. But if I hear that someone was unfaithful to their spouse, my business trust in them goes waaay down. If they're willing to break trust with the person closest to them in their life, what chance do I have as a mere business partner of not being screwed over at some point?

> But if I hear that someone was unfaithful to their spouse, my business trust in them goes waaay down. Same here. I actually don't know why it doesn't seem to affect people's thoughts about politicians. People are absolutely willing to separate what they know about a person's personal life from what they think about that person's politics. For me it's a scarlet letter. I get maybe an hour of talk about each candidat…

Nothing to say about cheating or personal relationships but it helps to be able to compartmentalise in some cases.

There’s a person on HN who comments frequently. Very level headed, measured, informative comments. Always tries to lower the temperature of discussions. Very refreshing to read their comments.

I followed them on Twitter and found a very different approach. It felt like two different people. But honestly they were able to compartmentalise these two personas and it worked.

I figured I should probably compartmentalise too. I wouldn’t invite the Twitter persona to a technical discussion but I would invite the HN persona. And as long as only the HN persona showed up, what does it matter to me what the Twitter persona does on the weekend?

Re: Divorce does funny things

#155

Post by kkjjkgjjgg »

thriftwy wrote: post #148
kkjjkgjjgg wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if your (ex) partner takes the children away with them? You can't be sure that they also consider staying together for the children to be the best course of action.

Obviosly you are trying to take something that is not yours. Getting a five finger discount to get (unilaterally) open relationship at a cost of regular one.

What do you mean? I don't understand anything of what you are saying? What am I trying to take that isn't mine? (And why me, I am not the OP)?

What is a five finger discount?

Re: Divorce does funny things

#156

Post by colinb »

jterrys wrote: post #120
romeros wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's only that black and white to you because of your naivety and a lack of understanding of how the world really works. The solution for this as for many other things is to switch off the computer and actually go out and experience the world and become more worldly. Otherwise, you will end up building a mental model of reality that quite doesn't exist.

You were right to hide behind a throwaway account. It's honestly quite easy to construct scenarios where cheating is entirely rational. But even the mere idea of such things make people revel with disgust. I don't expect to change anyone's point of view, but I will provide a very simple example to at least frame the mindset of a potential cheater: "You are happily married to your partner but after a few years your se…

I don't know if you read TFA. HN etiquette says that I shouldn't question it. Assuming you have, then please be the person who actually writes a book. I think you have a lot more understanding of the abrasive wear of normal human relationships than most. And you can put words together.

I also want to thank you for your comment that took a binary outlook on the world and introduced some small nuance.

[only the wrong sort of people don't like nuance. Burn them all I say! /s]

Re: Divorce does funny things

#157

Post by c_prompt »

watwut wrote: post #101
lelanthran wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been through it, there's nothing you can do and if the mother is really out for blood she will use your child against you. Women get rights, men get obligations.

If men file for custody they get 50/50. Men who ask for full custody also statistically win more often. You are doing disservice to both kids and men when you tell them they cant have it.

> If men file for custody they get 50/50. Men who ask for full custody also statistically win more often.

You're pulling that statistic from where? At least from the US census bureau, here are the stats from 2002 that go all the way back to 1994 [1]: "In the spring of 2002, an estimated 13.4 million parents had custody of 21.5 million children under 21 years of age whose other parent lived somewhere else. About 5 of every 6 custodial parents were mothers (84.4 percent) and 1 in 6 were fathers (15.6 percent), proportions statistically unchanged since 1994 (Table A). Overall, 27.6 percent of all children under 21 living in families had a parent not living in the home."

[1] https://valme.io/c/mens-rights/88qqs/a-tale-of-two-children-...

Re: Divorce does funny things

#158

Post by thriftwy »

kkjjkgjjgg wrote: post #155
thriftwy wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obviosly you are trying to take something that is not yours. Getting a five finger discount to get (unilaterally) open relationship at a cost of regular one.

What do you mean? I don't understand anything of what you are saying? What am I trying to take that isn't mine? (And why me, I am not the OP)? What is a five finger discount?

Five finger discount is when you steal.

The condition of staying in good relations with your wife where she does not take the children and blast off is not having a romantic life on the side.

You understand this condition but try to get around it by lying. Not because it is unfair or impossible. Just because you want to have good things without paying for them.

Re: Divorce does funny things

#159

Post by 3pt14159 »

atoav wrote: post #143
rich_sasha wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t know. What if the partner is a bad, manipulative actor, but it is just too difficult to dissolve the marriage? For the sake of children, financial commitments, costs, unfair legacy laws and so on? It’s certainly not unheard of, so I’ll keep sweeping personality assessments based on cheating at bay. There’s clearly also other reasons, I’m not saying cheating partners are always poor martyrs of circumstance.

Technically everything can be used to establish a (operational) perception of a person — and everything can be wrong. Someone wears a Rolex? Maybe they are rich and want to show off, maybe they inherited it from a dying family member. If they however additionally drive a super car, wear designer clothes the likelyhood of alternative explainations goes down. If someone is a nice, cordial and all around good person and…

The most enlightening bit I read online on this subject was that of a serial cheater who held no remorse for doing so. Her attitude was basically something like:

> Hey, I love him and if he doesn't know it doesn't hurt him and if I ask for permission not only will it hurt him, but he won't give it to me anyway. So I'll just lie to him.

Which kinda blew my mind. I understand cheating as a I-messed-up thing or as a my-partner-literally-and-believably-threatened-suicide-if-I-left-them thing but an ongoing, decades long deception? Man. That's wild.

Re: Divorce does funny things

#160

Post by fenderbluesjr »

jterrys wrote: post #120
romeros wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's only that black and white to you because of your naivety and a lack of understanding of how the world really works. The solution for this as for many other things is to switch off the computer and actually go out and experience the world and become more worldly. Otherwise, you will end up building a mental model of reality that quite doesn't exist.

You were right to hide behind a throwaway account. It's honestly quite easy to construct scenarios where cheating is entirely rational. But even the mere idea of such things make people revel with disgust. I don't expect to change anyone's point of view, but I will provide a very simple example to at least frame the mindset of a potential cheater: "You are happily married to your partner but after a few years your se…

I spent quite a bit of time exploring this topic some years back and have engaged with all of the nuances you have elaborated. However I still think you can reduce this part about the 'little primate brain that just wants to fuck' to a moral decision where the cheater is simply willing to put their own needs over those of everyone around them. The fact remains that maaany people _can_ ignore this part of their brain and after all the books and articles, I still feel they those who can't are just wimps when it comes down to it.

We have words for people who are not willing to sustain pain for a greater good and we have words for those who can.

Alain de Botton's book was the worst. It attempted to glorify it as being some necessary/indirectly selfless act done for the preservation of a marriage. Deluded

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