Earlier quoted context omitted.
The inflation adjusted $/sqft statement is a blended average across the US. It’s lower outside of towns and higher inside towns. This is tracked by the Census bureau but as always with averages there are values on both sides of the mean. [1] One caveat is it does reflect only new construction. [1] https://infogram.com/1pqdpn20vkmlelcq6qx7jzwz9pf00g9xnq5
> blended average across the US > One caveat is it does reflect only new construction. I am not sure what a blended average is but averaging new constructions makes your stats utterly useless? Where are people living mostly and how does the real estate market go there.
Will real estate ever be normal again?
471–480 of 620 posts
Re: Will real estate ever be normal again?
#472The Fed at this point controls the whole economy and they have two options: 1. Raise interest rates and stop printing. Crazy inflation stops, but asset prices crash and we enter a major recession or depression. The end result will likely be unrest and blood in the streets. 2. Do nothing, keep printing. Inflation picks up massively. The economy keeps humming along but young people, including myself, are permanently pr…
So, I’m 36, and I promise you don’t want a deep recession. Cheap housing doesn’t matter if you don’t have a job. We dodged a freaking bullet economically with COVID. We recovered quickly. Heck, even in 2008 we did better than the countries that tried fiscal or monetary austerity. And yeah, the real enemy is zoning. It’s fun to blame Blackrock, and they deserve it, but it’s regular homeowners trying to restrict more h…
Re: Will real estate ever be normal again?
#473Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is why I make sure to turn over my portfolio every year, to avoid favorable tax treatment.
Assuming this is not sarcasm, why not make that extra buck and donate whatever savings you make to what ever cause you see fit. It's odd to trust the government to use your money more prudently than yourself.
Re: Will real estate ever be normal again?
#474Earlier quoted context omitted.
There's a world of difference between high interest rates (which are good and healthy) and rising interest rates (which implode the economy). You gotta look at the derivative. Rising interest rates are really, really bad. Anyone who relies on revolving business debt, credit card debt, or other non-fixed-rate debt goes bankrupt. I kinda wish I entered the economy when we still had 12% interest rates. Each time a reces…
Even worse than rising interest rates is a society addicted to the fentanyl of zero interest rates. There is a reason major religions regulated debt in general, because that is how societal slavery develops. Of course we, the modern people of technology, 'know better' than our primitive ancient ancestors.
Charging 0% interest is absolutely fantastic. The only problem is that we don't do the debt forgiveness. We bail out banks and then expect tax payers to shoulder some or all of the losses. It was especially bad with Germany vs Greece. German banks were bailed out and public healthcare was basically eliminated in Greece.
The only reason why anyone would be against low interest rates is that they noticed that those interest rates eat into economic rents and therefore the owner of money benefited from the economic rents rather than the owner of the monopoly. In that sense, the only difference is that the money goes to the land owner instead of going to the bank. People don't realize that if they buy a $600k house with 0% interest that they would still have to pay $600k at 5% interest except most of the money goes to the bank instead of the seller who only gets $250k (made up number).
Re: Will real estate ever be normal again?
#475Earlier quoted context omitted.
I guess you missed the 13.6% delta increase in the last year...I meant through the roof relative to previous years. Not sure how you interpreted that any differently given the context...
So your statement was about 2nd order price growth vs the first order prices themselves? You literally said “the prices were through the roof”, not the growth. Yes something that is really cheap can experience rapid price growth and still be relatively cheap.
Maybe english is not your first language but when something is "through the roof" it means it raises at a very rapid rate. In other words, speaking to the velocity, not the overall speed.
> Yes something that is really cheap can experience rapid price growth and still be relatively cheap.
You're being overly pedantic about this for no reason. Put this into the context of the discussion. Yes, moving from San Francisco, CA to Wichita, KS will mean your cost of living will drastically decrease. The discussion is about whether there are jobs in Wichita. People will naturally migrate where jobs are and a rapid growth in housing costs (i.e. demand outpaces supply) means people are staying where the jobs are.
Again this has been all talked about in the daily news cycle. Covid has allowed a significant portion of the population to virtually live wherever they want. Thus people are moving from large cities and suburbs to more rural locations. Thus jobs are opening up in these areas (think Wichita) because both remote workers are moving there and then local markets that can't be remote (think retail) will grow as a result.
Re: Will real estate ever be normal again?
#476Earlier quoted context omitted.
To explain more about the logic used by the guy you replied to... ...the problem is people think: interest rates go up, economy slows down, we can never raise interest rates. This logic takes on a life of its own. The US economy was in this position in the late 60s: the Fed was under pressure to accommodate govt financing, they raised rates in 1959 and were blamed for causing a recession that influenced the outcome o…
The apparently only empirical study relating interest rates and growth was done by Richard Werner, concluding growth actually historically happened in high interest rate environments, whereas the current economic dogma states exactly otherwise. https://youtu.be/JD2z4l1DiBw
Interest rates merely balance the supply and demand of/for labor.
Growth usually happens when there is high demand for labor and that means interest rates are high during periods of growth. When you think about it, interest is just the risk adjusted yield of a labor saving investment plus minus bank fees and profit share of the borrower. That means the existence of high yielding investments is what drives interest rates up as lots of borrowers got to the bank and present their fantastic business ideas and the bank picks the highest yielding ones.
Well, I also have to say something. Growth didn't really stop with lower interest rates. The economy is much bigger than 30 years ago.
Also about negative interest rates, it's a fallacy to think they are supposed to stimulate borrowing. They are supposed to balance people's desire to be in debt with people's desire to hold onto credit (equivalent to demand/supply of labor). That means negative interest rates exist as a disincentive to save money because nobody wants to borrow money.
Re: Will real estate ever be normal again?
#477Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's well established that low density housing is completely unsustainable.
I'm curious what this statement is based upon, does anyone have specific references?
https://www.nature.com/scitable/knowledge/library/the-charac...
https://www.oecd.org/env/rethinking-urban-sprawl-97892641898...
Re: Will real estate ever be normal again?
#478Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is borderline romantic at this point. What bank do you think would ever possibly agree to this? Most people can’t even prove to their banks that they can afford a mortgage that’s less than the rent they’re currently paying.
There’s a lot more expenses as a homeowner than the mortgage (even the PITI (principal, interest, taxes, and insurance)). I can’t think of a year where I didn’t have $5K of crap that needed fixing/replacement/improvements*, the year with the fence was 6x that, and I’ve got a boiler coming due that will be a $15K project in all likelihood, $25K if I go higher-end and improve the piping configuration for more even heat…
To the younger generations out there mortgaging themselves into housing: the closer you are to median income, the more you should make damn sure you're computing PITI+Maintenance when crunching your numbers (there are a couple good calculators out there now, discussed in the past on HN), staying below a 33% post-tax DTI, and taking on as much of the fix/replace/improve work yourself as possible.
With increased US income precarity due to the medical debt adverse lottery selection pressure (major source of bankruptcy), conventional housing is a bigger gamble for median income earners, and conservative personal financial planning around housing mortgaging decisions is completely absent from mainstream American discourse. The field is entirely tilted against the common folk, and young generations in particular are specifically preyed upon.
With the high cost basis of housing today, try to avoid transaction churn and look to stay in one property for as long as the numbers make sense to you, and crunch the numbers for any moves to include round-trip realtor fees. At 2-3X gross pre-tax annual income for a house, while moving around and buying each time you move wasn't optimal, carrying the cost for big career income increases was justifiable. At today's ratios, with today's decreased class/income mobility, the round-trip realtor fees to sell-then-buy are tone-deaf by the industry to the reality on the ground for young customers.
The US real estate industry is tremendously out of alignment with serving the majority of the US population and especially the younger cohorts, and their extractive orientation only eats their seed corn to set up an asset bust down the road. The demographic time bomb that is now unfolding even in the US will be challenging to reverse/slow/halt, and has likely already indelibly written the secular asset bust into the real estate industry's future. No doubt the central bank will bail out the private underwriters again by making the quasi-public underwriting facilities take on the overleveraged valuations at their lows and unload as the private balance sheets can pick them up again to profit off them in the up cycle.
The real estate industry in general thrives upon a population who generally cannot get along with each other living in close quarters with each other as individuals, and that is also a hackable vector (among many others). If you can find extremely close (forged over 7-10 years) friends who you can thrive together even when living with each other under the same roof, then you've found a de-leveraging function against the industry's imposed costs instead of going at it yourself.
While all the efforts at YIMBY and related legislation are great, people need to get on with their lives and fund their retirements today. Hack your own solutions at your own level now instead of waiting for those efforts to bear fruit, because for damn sure the politician meat puppets of the real estate industry and the industry itself aren't ever going to do anything for us.
Re: Will real estate ever be normal again?
#479Earlier quoted context omitted.
Also if they do 1) just imagine how much interest payment that would mean for US Govt and all the dollar denominated debt. I think a mere rate raise to 5% will cause the US Treasury to have to pay for another military.
I’m wracking my brain trying to figure out how we’ll ever raise interest rates again due to this issue. Does anyone know? Any tricks I’m not aware of? Was there way less gov debt in the early 80s when they massively raised rates?
Re: Will real estate ever be normal again?
#480Earlier quoted context omitted.
the problem is that if inflation continues, then interest rates will go up, whether the fed wants them to or not...once rates go up, money will flow from asset investment to bonds etc...and that will crash asset prices...checkmate...one way or another, asset prices WILL crash
That's assuming a free market with true price discovery. In reality, we have the Fed buying up financial assets and printing enormous amounts of money, and bailing out companies (which reduces risk, keeping rates low)... the entire thing is specifically engineered to AVOID true price discovery.
Whatever the Fed is doing is just a side effect of things that happen in the global economy. It has more to go with globalization and China than the US economy.