Earlier quoted context omitted.
To destroy US, they want to create a one government rule.
Oh boy. I'll bite. Who is they? What is the one government rule?
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Sweden no longer stands out in pandemic, says architect of ‘no lockdown’ policy
31–40 of 199 posts
Re: Sweden no longer stands out in pandemic, says architect of ‘no lockdown’ policy
#32Earlier quoted context omitted.
Should an economy serve humanity or should humanity serve the economy? It's largely a moral choice, but how a population answers it determines their political response
> humanity serve the economy Humanity is economy, no money on the table means no food and no shelter.
Certainly one predicates the other (i.e., there's no economy without humanity) and it's quite impractical for humanity to exist at any scale without trade, but whether it makes sense to sacrifice human life for 'the greater good of the economy' or to sacrifice economic function for 'the greater good of humanity' entails a moral choice
Re: Sweden no longer stands out in pandemic, says architect of ‘no lockdown’ policy
#33Halting an economy to the point of economic depression levels (early on) for the sake of people who were already vulnerable (look at the US, lockdowns but people still left the house cause duh...groceries and jobs) was a dumb idea. The government was trying to play god with it's citizens and they couldn't even police simple things like "stay at home" orders. So what was the point in even shutting down everything and…
Should an economy serve humanity or should humanity serve the economy? It's largely a moral choice, but how a population answers it determines their political response
In modern times, you serve an economy because if you don't, you starve. This isn't star trek socialism. It's a survival of the fittest environment.
The government stepping in and saying "NOPE! WE KNOW BEST!" and then basically forcing every citizen to restructure their lives for something that couldn't even remotely be contained just shows the abuse of power. Even among private institutions. Look how many took advantage of the government PPP loans or outright laid off workers just for the hell of it.
The majority of the COVID deaths can be attributed to the old, obese, and sickly people. But most institutions serve people outside of that set. But because we have to protect the already dying, lets shut down everything and make life miserable for everyone! Lets not just tell these people to stay inside and be shut ins even though we could've!
Re: Sweden no longer stands out in pandemic, says architect of ‘no lockdown’ policy
#34Netherlands has just imposed lockdown measures even though they're more than 80% vaccinated, I wonder at what point are we going to call this bluff, and I say this as a vaccinated person (including the booster shot).
It's such a political thing that many people are going to support government measures and wear masks at family gatherings for the rest of their lives. I wouldn't be surprised if some things like masks at the post office last forever at this point regardless of necessity.
This is location dependent. If you live in such a community, I recommend exploring your options.
Re: Sweden no longer stands out in pandemic, says architect of ‘no lockdown’ policy
#35Earlier quoted context omitted.
To destroy US, they want to create a one government rule.
Oh boy. I'll bite. Who is they? What is the one government rule?
The US Democratic/Marxist party.
The intention of the Open Border policy is to allow millions of illegal aliens as potential new Democrats in.
Stop pretending to be stupid.
Re: Sweden no longer stands out in pandemic, says architect of ‘no lockdown’ policy
#36There are several of these articles trying to redeem Sweden's choices. Here are the results versus their similar neighbors in deaths per million people[1]: Sweden 1478 Denmark 474 Finland 219 Norway 173 They're 3 to 8 times worse. They now do compare favorably to Portugal for example at 1796. When did Portugal have the huge spike in deaths that propelled it in front of Sweden? When it decided not to do lockdowns, eve…
You're citing known COVID deaths, I think, while the epidemiologist points out in the article that a better metric is excess mortality: >Sweden had one of the lower excess mortality levels in Europe Presumably, excess mortality includes the effects of overloaded hospitals, delayed medical care, lockdown-related depression, and undiagnosed COVID, which are hard to measure any other way, and which seem logically much h…
So the cumulative excess death since January 1st 2020 (in terms of percentage of expected) is
Sweden: 5.21%
Finland: 1.57%
Denmark: -0.09%
Norway: -0.85%
And you think these numbers somehow argue that Sweden "no longer stands out"? Or tells a more positive story than the covid death numbers at least?
Source (thanks tomp): https://ourworldindata.org/explorers/coronavirus-data-explor...
Data as of October 17th (the latest date that Sweden has data for).
Re: Sweden no longer stands out in pandemic, says architect of ‘no lockdown’ policy
#37There are several of these articles trying to redeem Sweden's choices. Here are the results versus their similar neighbors in deaths per million people[1]: Sweden 1478 Denmark 474 Finland 219 Norway 173 They're 3 to 8 times worse. They now do compare favorably to Portugal for example at 1796. When did Portugal have the huge spike in deaths that propelled it in front of Sweden? When it decided not to do lockdowns, eve…
Yes, but comparing flat numbers in a statistically uncorrected way is like saying "Why aren't there any of the population from oap nursing homes in primary schools?".
Context is king, no more so than large scale and complex statistical analyses. Sadly almost nobody seems to appreciate this as long as they have a number to argue a point.
Nobody corrects for population demographics. Population density. The various interventions which will pollute the study even further as some have proven damaging. Not to mention the large scale all cause mortality spike associated with the vaccine drive observed as predicted in each further country from watching the Israeli data.
Ignoring all of the above in your statistical analysis is both cherry picking and employing the same logic used by people to exclaim 5G definitely causes cancer because of study-X where a rat died that one time.
Re: Sweden no longer stands out in pandemic, says architect of ‘no lockdown’ policy
#38The bureaucrats that have been responsible for the questionable approach Sweden has followed are currently fighting like a cornered cat to avoid any and all accountability. So this 'message' fits the narrative well. The prime minister has stepped down and left the reigns to someone else this week. The responsible for the health authorities has started his pension a week or two ago. Both conveniently around the same t…
Your entire argument falls over flat if you look at excess mortality. Aggregate statistics are hard to misunderstand. Sweden did worse at first, but is in general unremarkable.
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Re: Sweden no longer stands out in pandemic, says architect of ‘no lockdown’ policy
#39There are several of these articles trying to redeem Sweden's choices. Here are the results versus their similar neighbors in deaths per million people[1]: Sweden 1478 Denmark 474 Finland 219 Norway 173 They're 3 to 8 times worse. They now do compare favorably to Portugal for example at 1796. When did Portugal have the huge spike in deaths that propelled it in front of Sweden? When it decided not to do lockdowns, eve…
The best part is we’re not even through the Covid situation yet people are calling out winners and losers by looking at Covid deaths only.
Let’s revisit this in a decade when folks can add up deaths from Covid (and delayed care for other issues), mental health and economic impact.
THAT will be interesting to see.
Re: Sweden no longer stands out in pandemic, says architect of ‘no lockdown’ policy
#40There are several of these articles trying to redeem Sweden's choices. Here are the results versus their similar neighbors in deaths per million people[1]: Sweden 1478 Denmark 474 Finland 219 Norway 173 They're 3 to 8 times worse. They now do compare favorably to Portugal for example at 1796. When did Portugal have the huge spike in deaths that propelled it in front of Sweden? When it decided not to do lockdowns, eve…
I would love it if we could get such clear-cut results from the numbers, and just be able to say “this strategy is good, if we do that everything will be fine” (not saying you're saying that), but I really don't think that's the case. Here in Switzerland, we had plenty of lockdowns, followed the scientific wisdom and so on, and we're at 1375 deaths per million. The UK has shifted strategies around a bunch, but they h…
While I agree comparing countries can be apples and oranges, it makes sense to compare the Scandinavian countries. That Norway and Finland were much lower strongly suggests Sweden's strategies worsened things.