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U.S. states file updated antitrust complaint against Google

reuters.com

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Re: U.S. states file updated antitrust complaint against Google

#101

Post by larsiusprime »

adam_arthur wrote: post #89
kaycebasques wrote: post #16

Supposing substantial antitrust actions are taken against Big Tech, would that have any effect on rank-and-file salaries in software? Big Tech kinda sets the bar regarding salaries, no? When MSFT was hit with antitrust action did it have any effect like this? Or is it an apples/orange comparison?

Price of labor is a function of supply/demand. Developers still in very short supply vs demand. But profitability sets a ceiling on how much you can afford to pay. It seems to me that if antitrust action were taken that really eats into FAANG profits, that industry pay would decline. Not overnight of course, but gradually in real terms. May still rise in nominal terms. Startups/companies have been forced to raise wag…

Unless of course deadweight loss from monopoly power n FAANG is causing the industry as a whole to be less productive and competitive. In that situation antitrust against FAANG could actually cause wages to rise.

Re: U.S. states file updated antitrust complaint against Google

#102

Post by rapnie »

winternett wrote: post #88
mabbo wrote: post #53

As more data comes out about Google, Apple, Amazon, one simple underlying thing becomes clear: a single company cannot be trusted to operate a marketplace while also being a participant . Apple's App Store insider knowledge lets them discover popular apps, then boot them off the platform when they decide to compete. Amazon sees what products are successful and profitable, then makes knock-offs which they promote over…

Just think about all the development and financial data and ideas that google has a direct untraceable back door into through running gmail, android phones, and chrome browser alone... I have resorted to using an old school notepad for my development ideas pretty much. A software company I used to work for got shuttered just 3 months after a big software company paid the startup a visit to observe operations back in…

It always completely astounded me how countless professional businesses are casually and mindlessly handing over their most private internal communication and metrics to Google on a platter. And aren't Google's privacy policies and ToS's stating that all collected information can be used to "improve their own services" or something along those lines? Does that include 'extract business advantage' from your data? I don't know and IANAL, but I'd prefer some separation from such an ad-tech giant with my corporate intelligence.

Re: U.S. states file updated antitrust complaint against Google

#103

Post by toast0 »

notatoad wrote: post #85
ngngngng wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does this only go for internet companies? Or do you think it applies to Walmart selling its own Equate brand of everything or Costco selling its own Kirkland brand of everything?

yes, in a scenario where wal-mart or costco is acting as marketplace rather than seller (i.e. their online stores). when you see brand-name products on a shelf at wal-mart beside their own-brand, it's because wal-mart has purchased that product and is re-selling it. wal-mart has taken the risk of buying the stock in the first place. brands still have a chance to succeed. when a brand acts as a marketplace, they aren'…

> when you see brand-name products on a shelf at wal-mart beside their own-brand, it's because wal-mart has purchased that product and is re-selling it.

Goods on the shelf at stores in general are a mix of items on consignment, the vendor provided the goods and the vendor will be paid only if or when the goods sell; goods that were purchased on net-30 or net-N terms where the goods are delivered but not paid for until 30 (or N) days later; and also some goods that were purchased and paid for before delivery to the store (or store warehouse). Of course, even when the goods aren't on consignment, larger stores often negotiate favorable terms for unsold goods; typically the vendor must refund the store as well as pay for return shipping or disposal. A large amount of risk still falls to the vendor.

Anyway, store brands are fine, IMHO, but there's two things Amazon does that weird me out: a) in some categories they apparently have several store brands and it's not always clear it's an amazon brand, whereas Costco uses a single brand and most other stores use just a couple; b) there have been reports that Amazon will request supplier information from merchants of products that are selling well, and then Amazon goes to those suppliers and negotiates bulk purchases; it seems to me, that's making your merchants do all the work to discover items of interest and where to get them made and then Amazon swoops in and takes over.

Re: U.S. states file updated antitrust complaint against Google

#104

Post by AmericanChopper »

mabbo wrote: post #53

As more data comes out about Google, Apple, Amazon, one simple underlying thing becomes clear: a single company cannot be trusted to operate a marketplace while also being a participant . Apple's App Store insider knowledge lets them discover popular apps, then boot them off the platform when they decide to compete. Amazon sees what products are successful and profitable, then makes knock-offs which they promote over…

Anybody can figure out what Apps are popular, or are well liked by their users. Any 3rd party could operate the Apple App Store, and Apple (or anybody else in the world) would still know what apps were popular on it, and Apple would still be able to implement them as features/apps for their own operating systems. To resolve the conflict you’re describing, an operating system vendor would have to be prohibited from distributing software.

Re: U.S. states file updated antitrust complaint against Google

#105

Post by effingwewt »

bananabreakfast wrote: post #86
charrondev wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m guessing that number is in reference to googles dominance of the search market? I’m assuming they are less than that with regards to the advertisement market (I’m not super familiar with the space, but as I understand Facebook is a huge player there as well).

What market though? There is no search market. It is a service given away for free. There is no such thing as a monopoly on something that does not cost anything.

You're kidding, right? the first damn near full page of google search is nothing but ads which they make a killing off of.

If search wasn't profitable then ads in search and SEO wouldn't exist.

Re: U.S. states file updated antitrust complaint against Google

#106

Post by emkoemko »

mabbo wrote: post #53

As more data comes out about Google, Apple, Amazon, one simple underlying thing becomes clear: a single company cannot be trusted to operate a marketplace while also being a participant . Apple's App Store insider knowledge lets them discover popular apps, then boot them off the platform when they decide to compete. Amazon sees what products are successful and profitable, then makes knock-offs which they promote over…

imagine your Netflix and have to pay Apple massive % to be on their devices... then comes Apple with its own service and they can charge less because they don't charge them self's the % giving them very anti competitive advantage.

Re: U.S. states file updated antitrust complaint against Google

#107

Post by vmception »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #38
vmception wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also aside from corruption and capture, there are external forces. States really have little leverage, they want competition but could really just wind up completely unserviced as a corporation says bye bye to their irrelevant market. The feds dont go heavy handed as they have the capability to and massive leverage, but actually debilitating a company could be giving the market to the other remaining companies which…

> States really have little leverage, they want competition but could really just wind up completely unserviced as a corporation says bye bye to their irrelevant market. The state of Texas has a GDP similar to that of Canada, the state of New York to that of Russia, the state of California to that of France. Are these irrelevant markets? Even Vermont, all the way at the bottom, is beating out El Salvador, Honduras, H…

When a service has a little asterisk that singles out some states they dont operate, its not necessarily because of a specific law, it can be in response to specific regulatory action against that service that they opted not to deal with

Re: U.S. states file updated antitrust complaint against Google

#108

Post by heavyset_go »

larsiusprime wrote: post #101
adam_arthur wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Price of labor is a function of supply/demand. Developers still in very short supply vs demand. But profitability sets a ceiling on how much you can afford to pay. It seems to me that if antitrust action were taken that really eats into FAANG profits, that industry pay would decline. Not overnight of course, but gradually in real terms. May still rise in nominal terms. Startups/companies have been forced to raise wag…

Unless of course deadweight loss from monopoly power n FAANG is causing the industry as a whole to be less productive and competitive. In that situation antitrust against FAANG could actually cause wages to rise.

> Unless of course deadweight loss from monopoly power n FAANG is causing the industry as a whole to be less productive and competitive.

It's this. Apple and Google control the entire mobile software market. They tax it excessively, to the point that they get a 15% to 30% cut of almost every mobile app transaction, and have for decades. If a business can't afford to give up 15% to 30% of their total revenue, forever, then they're effectively prevented from bringing their mobile apps to market. Apple and Google also effectively decide what apps are distributed to the vast majority of Americans, as their app stores are responsible for 99% of all mobile app downloads[1].

It's insane that a duopoly has been allowed to heavily tax and stifle innovation over entire markets in the mobile space for more than a decade now. The entire mobile app, operating systems and payments markets are dominated by two companies, and they're doing everything in their power to remain dominant, at the expense of consumers and healthy, efficient markets.

[1] https://www.businessofapps.com/data/app-revenues/

Re: U.S. states file updated antitrust complaint against Google

#109

Post by pjmlp »

winternett wrote: post #88
mabbo wrote: post #53

As more data comes out about Google, Apple, Amazon, one simple underlying thing becomes clear: a single company cannot be trusted to operate a marketplace while also being a participant . Apple's App Store insider knowledge lets them discover popular apps, then boot them off the platform when they decide to compete. Amazon sees what products are successful and profitable, then makes knock-offs which they promote over…

Just think about all the development and financial data and ideas that google has a direct untraceable back door into through running gmail, android phones, and chrome browser alone... I have resorted to using an old school notepad for my development ideas pretty much. A software company I used to work for got shuttered just 3 months after a big software company paid the startup a visit to observe operations back in…

You forgot Chromebooks, that everyone around here is so eager to advocate, basically running their business on Google's infrastructure.

Re: U.S. states file updated antitrust complaint against Google

#110

Post by ReaLNero »

rapnie wrote: post #102
winternett wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just think about all the development and financial data and ideas that google has a direct untraceable back door into through running gmail, android phones, and chrome browser alone... I have resorted to using an old school notepad for my development ideas pretty much. A software company I used to work for got shuttered just 3 months after a big software company paid the startup a visit to observe operations back in…

It always completely astounded me how countless professional businesses are casually and mindlessly handing over their most private internal communication and metrics to Google on a platter. And aren't Google's privacy policies and ToS's stating that all collected information can be used to "improve their own services" or something along those lines? Does that include 'extract business advantage' from your data? I do…

(Not a Google engineer)

Google's engineers are notoriously loose-lipped (which is a good thing!!!). There's no way they would be able to keep a secret like this. Anytime a customer's private data gets accessed, you either a) need approval by someone or b) "break the glass", which is only reserved for oncall fires. Either way, it gets audited.

The only way I would believe something like this is if an executive/higher up requests data access, gets it, and the person auditing looks the other way.

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