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U.S. states file updated antitrust complaint against Google

reuters.com

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Re: U.S. states file updated antitrust complaint against Google

#81

Post by jefftk »

riazrizvi wrote: post #75
ngngngng wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does this only go for internet companies? Or do you think it applies to Walmart selling its own Equate brand of everything or Costco selling its own Kirkland brand of everything?

If 92.47% of all stores in the USA were only Walmart then yes, there would be a national interest in determining how grocery store competition had been destroyed/denied and we would want to fix it. In such a situation you would see a degradation of store product quality vs price. It might not be so clear with internet search because Google’s ascendence was coincident with innovation that it has hoovered up. But once…

Where are you getting 92.47%? Amazon's share of online shopping is well under that, no?

Re: U.S. states file updated antitrust complaint against Google

#82

Post by tjpnz »

sillysaurusx wrote: post #60
mabbo wrote: post #53

As more data comes out about Google, Apple, Amazon, one simple underlying thing becomes clear: a single company cannot be trusted to operate a marketplace while also being a participant . Apple's App Store insider knowledge lets them discover popular apps, then boot them off the platform when they decide to compete. Amazon sees what products are successful and profitable, then makes knock-offs which they promote over…

The underlying assumption is that this behavior is bad. Why is it bad? Especially bad enough to be regulated by a new law?

Because this kind of behaviour results in monopolies which stifle innovation and invariably harm people.

Re: U.S. states file updated antitrust complaint against Google

#83

Post by charrondev »

jefftk wrote: post #81
riazrizvi wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If 92.47% of all stores in the USA were only Walmart then yes, there would be a national interest in determining how grocery store competition had been destroyed/denied and we would want to fix it. In such a situation you would see a degradation of store product quality vs price. It might not be so clear with internet search because Google’s ascendence was coincident with innovation that it has hoovered up. But once…

Where are you getting 92.47%? Amazon's share of online shopping is well under that, no?

I’m guessing that number is in reference to googles dominance of the search market?

I’m assuming they are less than that with regards to the advertisement market (I’m not super familiar with the space, but as I understand Facebook is a huge player there as well).

Re: U.S. states file updated antitrust complaint against Google

#84

Post by GeekyBear »

hellbannedguy wrote: post #19
Jerry2 wrote: post #9

I find it sad that all this is coming from state AGs and not from the DOJ and FTC. It just shows how corrupt our federal institutions are due to regulatory capture [1]. I still remember how Google escaped antitrust enforcement during the Obama presidency. There was a "revolving door" for Google execs and White House officials who would fill positions at both places [2]. When FTC prepared a massive report of Google's…

During Obama it didn't seem like the problem it is today. I'm not saying it wasen't a problem, but America thought these FANG companies were solving our problems. I never liked Google Executives going to the White House, but I don't think it was because Obama sold out. Tech was very new. Google honestly wanted to help. It seemed like every young guy wanted to be Zuck. Hell even Zuck thought he could run for president…

>During Obama it didn't seem like the problem it is today.

The career antitrust officials at FTC thought Google should be prosecuted, but the political appointees (of both parties) that control the agency shut down their investigation.

>The investigators, who handed the document to the five FTC commissioners who would decide whether to launch an antitrust suit, found in 2012 that the search company's "conduct has resulted -- and will result -- in real harm to consumers and to innovation in the online search and advertising markets."

https://www.cnet.com/tech/services-and-software/google-cause...

Meanwhile, the EU proceeded with their own antitrust investigation into many of the same issues and Google was found to be guilty.

Re: U.S. states file updated antitrust complaint against Google

#85

Post by notatoad »

ngngngng wrote: post #67
mabbo wrote: post #53

As more data comes out about Google, Apple, Amazon, one simple underlying thing becomes clear: a single company cannot be trusted to operate a marketplace while also being a participant . Apple's App Store insider knowledge lets them discover popular apps, then boot them off the platform when they decide to compete. Amazon sees what products are successful and profitable, then makes knock-offs which they promote over…

Does this only go for internet companies? Or do you think it applies to Walmart selling its own Equate brand of everything or Costco selling its own Kirkland brand of everything?

yes, in a scenario where wal-mart or costco is acting as marketplace rather than seller (i.e. their online stores).

when you see brand-name products on a shelf at wal-mart beside their own-brand, it's because wal-mart has purchased that product and is re-selling it. wal-mart has taken the risk of buying the stock in the first place. brands still have a chance to succeed.

when a brand acts as a marketplace, they aren't taking on the risk. they're selling shelf space, not buying things to put on the shelves. when they participate in the marketplace as well as operating it, they are competing with their own customers. that's the behaviour that's essentially a recipe to destroy competition.

Re: U.S. states file updated antitrust complaint against Google

#86

Post by bananabreakfast »

charrondev wrote: post #83
jefftk wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where are you getting 92.47%? Amazon's share of online shopping is well under that, no?

I’m guessing that number is in reference to googles dominance of the search market? I’m assuming they are less than that with regards to the advertisement market (I’m not super familiar with the space, but as I understand Facebook is a huge player there as well).

What market though? There is no search market. It is a service given away for free. There is no such thing as a monopoly on something that does not cost anything.

Re: U.S. states file updated antitrust complaint against Google

#87

Post by waterloosong »

kaycebasques wrote: post #17

> The lawsuit also highlights Google's use of a secret program dubbed "Project Bernanke" in 2013 that used bidding data to give its own ad-buying an advantage. For example, in a 2015 iteration of the program, Google allegedly dropped the second-highest bids from publishers' auctions, accumulated money into a pool and then spent that money to inflate only the bids belonging advertisers who used the company's Google Ad…

A good introduction to that topic is About Enhanced CPC: https://support.google.com/google-ads/answer/2464964

"ECPC works by automatically adjusting your manual bids for clicks that seem more or less likely to lead to a sale or conversion on your website"

Of course, it is based on historical data

But you end up having a quite complicated code calculating the auction bid.

I doubt that you could code it easily based on a cursory reading of the About Enhanced CPC page.

Even more futile is guessing what specific details of that code function that project Bernanke optimized, if your only source is the lawsuit doc and newspapers relating it

Re: U.S. states file updated antitrust complaint against Google

#88

Post by winternett »

mabbo wrote: post #53

As more data comes out about Google, Apple, Amazon, one simple underlying thing becomes clear: a single company cannot be trusted to operate a marketplace while also being a participant . Apple's App Store insider knowledge lets them discover popular apps, then boot them off the platform when they decide to compete. Amazon sees what products are successful and profitable, then makes knock-offs which they promote over…

Just think about all the development and financial data and ideas that google has a direct untraceable back door into through running gmail, android phones, and chrome browser alone...

I have resorted to using an old school notepad for my development ideas pretty much. A software company I used to work for got shuttered just 3 months after a big software company paid the startup a visit to observe operations back in 98, I've always been wary of corporate espionage since.

Re: U.S. states file updated antitrust complaint against Google

#89

Post by adam_arthur »

kaycebasques wrote: post #16

Supposing substantial antitrust actions are taken against Big Tech, would that have any effect on rank-and-file salaries in software? Big Tech kinda sets the bar regarding salaries, no? When MSFT was hit with antitrust action did it have any effect like this? Or is it an apples/orange comparison?

Price of labor is a function of supply/demand. Developers still in very short supply vs demand. But profitability sets a ceiling on how much you can afford to pay.

It seems to me that if antitrust action were taken that really eats into FAANG profits, that industry pay would decline. Not overnight of course, but gradually in real terms. May still rise in nominal terms.

Startups/companies have been forced to raise wages over time to compete with FAANG.

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