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U.S. states file updated antitrust complaint against Google

reuters.com

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Re: U.S. states file updated antitrust complaint against Google

#21

Post by ignoramous »

kaycebasques wrote: post #17

> The lawsuit also highlights Google's use of a secret program dubbed "Project Bernanke" in 2013 that used bidding data to give its own ad-buying an advantage. For example, in a 2015 iteration of the program, Google allegedly dropped the second-highest bids from publishers' auctions, accumulated money into a pool and then spent that money to inflate only the bids belonging advertisers who used the company's Google Ad…

This summary by Jason Kint is pretty digestible: https://twitter.com/jason_kint/status/1451621332983103492

Re: U.S. states file updated antitrust complaint against Google

#22

Post by vmception »

nverno wrote: post #14
Jerry2 wrote: post #9

I find it sad that all this is coming from state AGs and not from the DOJ and FTC. It just shows how corrupt our federal institutions are due to regulatory capture [1]. I still remember how Google escaped antitrust enforcement during the Obama presidency. There was a "revolving door" for Google execs and White House officials who would fill positions at both places [2]. When FTC prepared a massive report of Google's…

The DOJ has a lawsuit against Google in the works, it's even mentioned in the article. [[I'm hesitant to provide a citation as I'm not sure of the latest source]]

Also aside from corruption and capture, there are external forces.

States really have little leverage, they want competition but could really just wind up completely unserviced as a corporation says bye bye to their irrelevant market.

The feds dont go heavy handed as they have the capability to and massive leverage, but actually debilitating a company could be giving the market to the other remaining companies which from their perspective is worse because they created the monopoly.

Re: U.S. states file updated antitrust complaint against Google

#23

Post by earthscienceman »

hellbannedguy wrote: post #19
Jerry2 wrote: post #9

I find it sad that all this is coming from state AGs and not from the DOJ and FTC. It just shows how corrupt our federal institutions are due to regulatory capture [1]. I still remember how Google escaped antitrust enforcement during the Obama presidency. There was a "revolving door" for Google execs and White House officials who would fill positions at both places [2]. When FTC prepared a massive report of Google's…

During Obama it didn't seem like the problem it is today. I'm not saying it wasen't a problem, but America thought these FANG companies were solving our problems. I never liked Google Executives going to the White House, but I don't think it was because Obama sold out. Tech was very new. Google honestly wanted to help. It seemed like every young guy wanted to be Zuck. Hell even Zuck thought he could run for president…

You lived in a bubble, nobody wanted to be Zuck in my circles and he was mocked ruthlessly for how out of touch and selfish he was. His comment about becoming president was seen to reinforce that. Facebook was also widely seen as rapidly becoming the place for drama and vapid political commentary. This was ... college during 2008, so not exactly last year.

Re: U.S. states file updated antitrust complaint against Google

#24

Post by djbusby »

vmception wrote: post #22
nverno wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The DOJ has a lawsuit against Google in the works, it's even mentioned in the article. [[I'm hesitant to provide a citation as I'm not sure of the latest source]]

Also aside from corruption and capture, there are external forces. States really have little leverage, they want competition but could really just wind up completely unserviced as a corporation says bye bye to their irrelevant market. The feds dont go heavy handed as they have the capability to and massive leverage, but actually debilitating a company could be giving the market to the other remaining companies which…

So? Do nothing and let the current monopoly get stronger?

Re: U.S. states file updated antitrust complaint against Google

#25

Post by djbusby »

kaycebasques wrote: post #16

Supposing substantial antitrust actions are taken against Big Tech, would that have any effect on rank-and-file salaries in software? Big Tech kinda sets the bar regarding salaries, no? When MSFT was hit with antitrust action did it have any effect like this? Or is it an apples/orange comparison?

I've been in tech since 1997, spent some time at MS (back in NT4,Win2k). The only wage pullback I've seen was dot-com implosion. It lasted maybe two years of slightly reduced pay.

Re: U.S. states file updated antitrust complaint against Google

#26

Post by MeinBlutIstBlau »

kaycebasques wrote: post #16

Supposing substantial antitrust actions are taken against Big Tech, would that have any effect on rank-and-file salaries in software? Big Tech kinda sets the bar regarding salaries, no? When MSFT was hit with antitrust action did it have any effect like this? Or is it an apples/orange comparison?

My lead has been working for 30 years as a dev and has told me his salary has been pretty consistent throughout so I don't believe that's the case. The coastal cities project absurd salaries but when I look at indeed across all of the US, 60-120k is pretty standard depending on entry to senior. If they got knocked down a peg, I highly doubt a lot of people working for google or microsoft would be vying for the lame boring "conservative" work environments in the midwest or south.

Re: U.S. states file updated antitrust complaint against Google

#28

Post by nverno »

djbusby wrote: post #24
vmception wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also aside from corruption and capture, there are external forces. States really have little leverage, they want competition but could really just wind up completely unserviced as a corporation says bye bye to their irrelevant market. The feds dont go heavy handed as they have the capability to and massive leverage, but actually debilitating a company could be giving the market to the other remaining companies which…

So? Do nothing and let the current monopoly get stronger?

I think it is a safe bet that there will always be new monopolies developing. There are always new markets, and benefits often don't scale linearly with growth.

It's a complicated, error-prone business, trying to disrupt monopolies effectively in such a way that is actually beneficial to the community. If you think about it, the cost/benefit analysis is based largely on economic predictions which are never that accurate.

Re: U.S. states file updated antitrust complaint against Google

#29

Post by vrc »

kaycebasques wrote: post #17

> The lawsuit also highlights Google's use of a secret program dubbed "Project Bernanke" in 2013 that used bidding data to give its own ad-buying an advantage. For example, in a 2015 iteration of the program, Google allegedly dropped the second-highest bids from publishers' auctions, accumulated money into a pool and then spent that money to inflate only the bids belonging advertisers who used the company's Google Ad…

This article explains it somewhat [1]. Still not much more detail, but more nuance than the Reuters piece.

I guess the claim was that they manipulated where bids were placed based on who had the highest bid. So that if a non Google advertiser was going to win the auction, they removed the second highest bid if it was a Google advertiser s.t. the price paid for the slot dropped (second price auction). So in effect, they maintained a higher payout for pubs when Google programmatic bidders won by dropping the second price floor on non Google-programmatic winners. Thus making more money AND converting people towards programmatic.

I believe their counter argument is that the data they had actually just made programmatic better from the start by predicting these outcomes, no fraud needed

[1] https://www.wsj.com/articles/googles-secret-project-bernanke...

Re: U.S. states file updated antitrust complaint against Google

#30

Post by [deleted] »

judge2020 wrote: post #10
ZhangSWEFAANG wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think there is one unified goal but a series of suggested changes. For example, in the linked article ( https://www.reuters.com/technology/dozens-us-states-sue-goog... ), "The states want the consumers to get their money back. They also called for civil penalties and a court-imposed monitor to ensure Google eases the process for consumers, app developers and smartphone makers to use or promote alternatives to…

That's a very different case. The HN article is about the Ad-rigging system abuse, not the consumer choice app store lawsuit. > accuses Google of using monopolistic and coercive tactics with advertisers in its efforts to dominate and drive out competition in online advertising.

[deleted]
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