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Show HN: Long Range E-Bike

jacquesmattheij.com

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Re: Show HN: Long Range E-Bike

#351

Post by stef25 »

rjbwork wrote: post #145
jacquesm wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the USA the situation is much more risky than here. I don't like riding in traffic mostly because drivers tend to have a short fuse for anything that isn't exactly at the limit, but on bike paths everything works just fine. The problem is that s-pedelecs are technically lumped in with the scooters, even though there is no throttle and there is absolutely no way you are going to sustain 40 Kph+ for anything but a v…

I have an e-bike and I disagree with your assertions. I'm a fat asthmatic and I have absolutely no problem maintaining 40kph for long stretches of time on my bike. The fastest I've done on it (on a large hill but still) is 42.7MPH (~68Kph). Average cruising speed on flat land can easily be 30-33mph(48-53kph). Not all e-bikes are capable of this, but they are certainly not some kind of rare expensive impossibility - m…

Most if not all electric bikes here in EU won't get close to those speeds, regardless of your fitness. I don't think it's even allowed.

If it's capable of doing 50KPH it should be treated as a motorcycle, away from other cyclists and pedestrians and the rider should have the same knowledge as a motorcyclist wrt to how to behave in traffic.

Re: Show HN: Long Range E-Bike

#352

Post by amelius »

jacquesm wrote: post #64
timerol wrote: post #56

> I traced it down to the several KA welding pulse that caused the ground fault interruptor to be EMP’d. Running the welder without ground took care of that. That's a solution, I suppose. Not one that I would pursue, but I'm glad the author got the pack welded without any injury.

I know my way around electrical stuff, not having ground on the welder was ok given the work place setup, but agreed that if you are unsure about the possible consequences that you shouldn't do that. Ironically, the only time I ever really got zapped was when I was connecting a scope to what I thought was the ground terminal of a very large high voltage power supply. The only slight problem was that it was a positive…

Kind of strange that they build scopes with ground tied to mains earth, as it is the source of so many problems and hazards. Letting the entire thing float would be the proper solution.

Re: Show HN: Long Range E-Bike

#353

Post by frenchyatwork »

leetcrew wrote: post #253
pharmakom wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A really important factor you didn’t mention is weight. KE = 0.5 * v * v * m

that equation shows velocity is more important though? a small car at 10 mph has about the same KE as a 200 lb person going 40 mph. of course KE doesn't tell the whole story. of the two, I'd much rather be hit by the car. I could run into a brick wall at 10 mph and probably be okay.

True, though most collisions aren't head on, and even when they are, usually only a fraction of the velocity is absorbed because the objects deflect from each other.

Re: Show HN: Long Range E-Bike

#354

Post by stef25 »

twodave wrote: post #38

Awesome project Jacques! I saw a comment of yours on an article a day or two ago and was hoping to see this pop up soon. I've found the most difficult thing about riding an e-bike is the other motorists have no idea how to react to you. You're not really a regular bicycle anymore due to your speed, but you're also not a motorcycle that deserves its own lane. I have at least one car turn in front of me almost every tr…

Whatever you do in traffic, be very careful. I'm still driving a car and inner city traffic is basically slaloming between cyclists. If something goes wrong, only one of us will end up in hospital.

I do also ride my bike on weekends have have been riding a 650cc motorbike for 15+ years, so not at all against 2 wheels. It's just that most people on two wheels seem to have started very recently and they don't know how to behave.

Re: Show HN: Long Range E-Bike

#355

Post by bobthepanda »

m4x wrote: post #238
rjbwork wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have an e-bike and I disagree with your assertions. I'm a fat asthmatic and I have absolutely no problem maintaining 40kph for long stretches of time on my bike. The fastest I've done on it (on a large hill but still) is 42.7MPH (~68Kph). Average cruising speed on flat land can easily be 30-33mph(48-53kph). Not all e-bikes are capable of this, but they are certainly not some kind of rare expensive impossibility - m…

I'm curious - what ebike do you have that can easily cruise at 48-53 kph for extended periods? In most countries that would be far above the legal limits imposed on ebikes. As a result, the ebikes available for purchase are all limited to 25-32 kph max and typically have power limits of 250-300 W. Since ebikes are a lot heavier, exceeding 32 kph for more than a few seconds is generally very difficult. I don't think G…

The rules vary widely in the US.

Anything going faster than 25MPH (40 km/h) without cutting out in NYC is legally classified as a moped. https://www1.nyc.gov/html/dot/html/bicyclists/ebikes.shtml

Re: Show HN: Long Range E-Bike

#356

Post by spamizbad »

rconti wrote: post #326
spamizbad wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but even a The only difference is the experienced, lycra-clad cyclists with expensive bikes just get up to speed faster, maybe with less of a tailwind or downward grade. However, unlike their speedy novice kin, they (should, in theory) have better bike handling skills. Overall, I think a strategy of banning with people the highest cycling skills from bike paths seems like a bad ide…

Even at 4.25w/kg I cannot hit 30mph without a tailwind or a downhill. I can push MAYBE 26mph, possibly 27. And that's going to be at something unsustainable for me, like 400-500w. (FTP of 350w). At threshold power, I'm guessing more like 22-23mph. And, not to toot my own horn, but that's a pretty damn fit experienced cyclist.

Ah, but you should be able to hit it while drafting with aero bars.

My point here is that it's not the bike that makes you go 40mph - it's the "engine" (the human) and the environment. Expensive human-powered bikes aren't going to magically turn someone who tops out at 20mph into someone doing twice that.

Re: Show HN: Long Range E-Bike

#357

Post by mikepurvis »

HPsquared wrote: post #195
mikepurvis wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay, then take away the blind spots and some of the mass and ask the same question— why don't we allow motorcycles to drive on the sidewalk or multiuse paths assuming they pinky swear to always go really slowly?

Seriously? 1. Motorbikes weigh at least 10 times as much as bicycles, and can't be picked up any moved around by the rider 2. Motorbikes are much wider than bicycles 3. Motorbikes can accelerate much faster than bicycles 4. Motorbikes emit noise and exhaust fumes 5. Motorbikes have a much larger turning radius than bicycles 6. Motorbikes are capable of keeping up with cars and therefore have no need to be on bike lan…

The starting point for this discussion was:

"Who cares if it's pedal-assist or throttle so long as you aren't going markedly faster than normal people without any motor at all?"

And my point is that there are a lot of devices out there that are legally an ebike, and therefore have access to bike infrastructure provided the observe a 20MPH speed limit, but that are in reality much heavier and less maneuverable than what most people consider a "bicycle".

Obviously this has been lost on the downvoters, but just as some examples, if I were out with my kids cycling on a multi-use path, I would not be thrilled to have "bikes" like these passing me at 20MPH:

https://rugged.bike/

https://ebikegeneration.com/collections/rambo

https://www.addmotor.com/products/m-5500

Re: Show HN: Long Range E-Bike

#358

Post by dahfizz »

whimsicalism wrote: post #275
ghshephard wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't see it as absurd at all - there is a huge contingent of bicyclists who should never be on a sidewalk, while at the same time there are massive numbers of casual e-cyclists who should never be riding in traffic. Ann Arbor recently changed it's laws to reflect that - and I think the cyclists who are aware they shouldn't be on sidewalks, and the e-cyclists who stick only to the sidewalks know who they are.

No e-biker should be on a sidewalk. There are informal norms. Cyclists who cycle on sidewalks should be relatively new and should make sure to behave explicitly with all of the rules of the road (ie. don't run a red from the sidewalk as a cyclist, very dangerous. if you must, dismount and walk across or wait for the pedestrian light). Cyclists on the street are generally more experienced and do not have to explicitly…

If you're piloting a vehicle on the road, you should follow all the rules of the road. This is the reason people hate cyclists.

Re: Show HN: Long Range E-Bike

#359

Post by bobthepanda »

rjbwork wrote: post #291
user_7832 wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure why you would assume the author is being disingenuous. Your bike is almost certainly very different from the author's, and a more powerful motor is going to get you faster. Fun fact/side note - power requirements generally scale with the cube of speed due to rapidly increasing air drag, so going at 50km/h is much harder (and requires a much stronger motor) than going at 30km/h.

I specifically did not choose the word disingenuous. I asked him to be more ingenuous. His assertion was "there is absolutely no way you are going to sustain 40 Kph+ for anything but a very short period". I disagree, and I think minimizing the capabilities of these machines in the rhetoric is counterproductive to converting skeptics. In the US it's 100% legal to go 28MPH on them for as long as you can - which for me…

Depends on the jurisdiction. NYC only allows 25MPH: https://www1.nyc.gov/html/dot/html/bicyclists/ebikes.shtml

At some point, we do need to restrict faster vehicles from operating in the bike lanes and the sidewalks, because the speed differentials will probably end up killing someone.

Re: Show HN: Long Range E-Bike

#360

Post by mikepurvis »

Animats wrote: post #233
mikepurvis wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At a certain point, you've added enough extra mass to the vehicle in terms of batteries, motor, beefed up brakes and frame, etc that you need to start asking questions about how much kinetic energy it's carrying and what happens to it all in case of a crash. Silly comparison, but we wouldn't let a car drive on the sidewalk even if it had a special module that limited it to 5km/h.

Yes. Maybe a stopping-distance requirement. Many "e-bikes" are under-braked and under-tired for their speed and mass. Big-tire "e-bikes" with disk brakes are really light motorcycles. Forget the pedals and admit it.

I completely agree— electric fat bikes are totally a fun time, but I think they really land in an odd place when it comes to where they belong on the road. They're likely too bulky and heavy to be in the bike lane, but shouldn't really be in the car lane given their speed limit. And the speed limit shouldn't really be dropped without imposing licensing, and once you're there, there's no point— it's just an electric motorcycle.
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