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Show HN: Long Range E-Bike

jacquesmattheij.com

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Re: Show HN: Long Range E-Bike

#171

Post by jacquesm »

rjbwork wrote: post #145
jacquesm wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the USA the situation is much more risky than here. I don't like riding in traffic mostly because drivers tend to have a short fuse for anything that isn't exactly at the limit, but on bike paths everything works just fine. The problem is that s-pedelecs are technically lumped in with the scooters, even though there is no throttle and there is absolutely no way you are going to sustain 40 Kph+ for anything but a v…

I have an e-bike and I disagree with your assertions. I'm a fat asthmatic and I have absolutely no problem maintaining 40kph for long stretches of time on my bike. The fastest I've done on it (on a large hill but still) is 42.7MPH (~68Kph). Average cruising speed on flat land can easily be 30-33mph(48-53kph). Not all e-bikes are capable of this, but they are certainly not some kind of rare expensive impossibility - m…

I'm sure there are other e-bikes, but those are not available where I live. The fastest here are the Stromers, they are a little bit faster but not exceptionally so and they also cut out at 45 kph, just like mine.

At a guess your bike outputs more power than is legal here.

Re: Show HN: Long Range E-Bike

#172

Post by jacquesm »

vzaliva wrote: post #126

Unless you are doing some competitive riding, there is a reasonable limit for how long you want to ride per day. As a motorcyclist, I know well that distances of 350-600 miles per day are possible but taxing on your body. So for regular commute or light weekend riding (roundtrip), I would say 4-5 hours of battery life is sufficient. Depending on cruising speed, you can calculate the distance it will get you. Anything…

This is true, modulo that if you charge your battery to the max and discharge it all the way that you are murdering it, so some spare capacity will very much improve your battery's life span, way beyond what you would get out of it otherwise.

Re: Show HN: Long Range E-Bike

#174

Post by rjbwork »

jacquesm wrote: post #171
rjbwork wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have an e-bike and I disagree with your assertions. I'm a fat asthmatic and I have absolutely no problem maintaining 40kph for long stretches of time on my bike. The fastest I've done on it (on a large hill but still) is 42.7MPH (~68Kph). Average cruising speed on flat land can easily be 30-33mph(48-53kph). Not all e-bikes are capable of this, but they are certainly not some kind of rare expensive impossibility - m…

I'm sure there are other e-bikes, but those are not available where I live. The fastest here are the Stromers, they are a little bit faster but not exceptionally so and they also cut out at 45 kph, just like mine. At a guess your bike outputs more power than is legal here.

>At a guess your bike outputs more power than is legal here.

From a brief look - no. Belgium says "4000 W 45 km/h limited "speed pedelecs", which are classed as mopeds for all requirements."

Mine has a 750W nominal motor, but seems to output around 1050W at peak.

Re: Show HN: Long Range E-Bike

#175

Post by jacquesm »

gquiniou wrote: post #167

I am surprised velomobiles are never mentioned: they are much faster than traditional bicycles, have some protection from the weather and can be electric assisted too: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Velomobile

They are super dangerous too. Very low to the ground, nearly invisible from the perspective of a motorist and far harder to overtake with on narrow bike paths than regular bikes. We have a couple of them near here, also a few battery assisted ones. The velomobile would be an ideal vehicle if everybody rode one.

Re: Show HN: Long Range E-Bike

#176

Post by moralestapia »

temp_praneshp wrote: post #158
moralestapia wrote: post #61

Love it, glad to see you keep doing nice stuff, Jacques. Also glad to see there are still real makers in the world. Makers do, period. Another type of person would've asked for 10M of seed funding for "a revolutionary way to commute to work, target market: the whole world" and would've delivered nothing after 2 years of "working really hard on it".

And then there are people like you and me who do neither and spend time talking shit on HN.

Well, kind of, ..., my 2021 has been one of my most productive years ever.

Re: Show HN: Long Range E-Bike

#177

Post by mynameisash »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #133
davidw wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm not cool at all with basically motorbikes getting a free pass because they're disguised as bicycles. As long as they'r not causing problems for other cyclists, they're still a big win in terms of transportation: way less carbon usage and occupies less space.

> As long as they'r not causing problems for other cyclists, They cause problems. Maybe not every e-motorcycle rider, but most of them take full advantage of the power to out-accelerate other bikers and double the top speed of everyone around them. Bike paths were design with typical cyclist speeds in mind. It's not uncommon to see a young kid flying down our local bike paths at 40mph or more on a modded e-bike, forc…

> Maybe not every e-motorcycle rider

I'm not sure if people are using these terms colloquially or if they are codified in law or generally accepted, so I may be making some false assumptions here: as an ICE motorcycle rider, using the term 'e-motorcycle' to refer to what is effectively a no-pedal bicycle dramatically overstates the capabilities and gives a false impression of what such a vehicle/device is.

While some no-pedal electric bikes probably can move at a decent clip, I have to imagine that they're much closer to pedal bike than motorcycle performance.

Re: Show HN: Long Range E-Bike

#178

Post by dylan604 »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #133
davidw wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm not cool at all with basically motorbikes getting a free pass because they're disguised as bicycles. As long as they'r not causing problems for other cyclists, they're still a big win in terms of transportation: way less carbon usage and occupies less space.

> As long as they'r not causing problems for other cyclists, They cause problems. Maybe not every e-motorcycle rider, but most of them take full advantage of the power to out-accelerate other bikers and double the top speed of everyone around them. Bike paths were design with typical cyclist speeds in mind. It's not uncommon to see a young kid flying down our local bike paths at 40mph or more on a modded e-bike, forc…

>but most of them take full advantage of the power to out-accelerate other bikers and double the top speed of everyone around them.

The full throttle mode of a eBike is limited to 20mph (specifically in the US). I have one, and even when in full assist mode have been passed by dayglo spandex wearing bikers like I was sitting still.

Re: Show HN: Long Range E-Bike

#179

Post by fragmede »

TacticalCoder wrote: post #27

We really need a terminology to differentiate better between pedal-assist only e-bikes ("pedelec") and electric motorbikes. A "bicycle" that can accelerate without the need to pedal at all is an electric motorcycle, no matter if you put pedal on it or not. I see the two as totally different things: I've tried pedal-assist e-bike and they're great. But... Although I have nothing against motorbikes I'm not cool at all…

And scooters, electric-scooters, and sit-down electric scooters. And electric wheelchairs, and non-electric wheelchairs and mobility assist carts with handlebars. We also have to delineate between a daydreaming cyclist who's top speed is slow, and a hard-core cyclist with a $3000+ bike that can hit 40 mph in the right conditions. Those cyclists should be banned from using the same paths as the first kind of bicyclist, and should be relegated to the same areas as 'electric motorcycles'. Because it's really about acceleration and top speed, and it matters zero whether the thing has pedals or not.

Or put it another way, if my 'electric motorcycle' is slower to accelerate and has a slower top speed than you could possibly manage on a bicycle, it's really not a 'motorcycle' in any way, no matter how many pedals it does or doesn't have.

Re: Show HN: Long Range E-Bike

#180

Post by et-al »

aaomidi wrote: post #161
space_fountain wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think something like average real world speed and weight are the two important metrics. Maybe this is the intuition with petal assist vs throttle controlled e-bikes. I do sort of think it should take some work to get a bike up to it's top speed so that riders don't just cruise at that speed.

> so that riders don't just cruise at that speed. Do you actually ride bikes on roads? This is there because if you're going slow on an actual road you're more likely to get killed because of a car hitting you. I'm honestly exhausted at this FUD when it's actively fucking with my life as a bike rider on a main road. Even Netherlands allows fully motorized vehicles that are small on their bike paths. Stop thinking of…

The OP, jacquesm, just mentioned throttle-only ebikes are not legal in the Netherlands.

Anyone who's comparing ebike speeds to rider speeds: most people new to riding bikes cannot sustain riding at 30kph (18.5mph) for probably more than 5 minutes, less if there's any gradual elevation. As such, bikes are "safe" because there's an inherent speed limiter. You pedal really fast, go fast, then you get tired and chill out.

By having a throttle-only mode, the rider never tires and will just want to go fast all. the. time.

> Stop thinking of this as a "free pass" and more of "what's actually the safest for bikers and pedestrians.

What's safest for bikers and pedestrians on multi-use paths (MUP) would be if ebikes actually followed the Class 1 rules and were limited to 32kph/20mph on these paths. (imo, 20mph is already pretty darn fast.) If folks want to go faster, then do it on the street. If you want to rip the throttle wide open, don't do it where a child is learning how to ride their bike or where people are just enjoying a leisurely stroll.

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