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Show HN: Long Range E-Bike

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Re: Show HN: Long Range E-Bike

#121

Post by Closi »

TacticalCoder wrote: post #27

We really need a terminology to differentiate better between pedal-assist only e-bikes ("pedelec") and electric motorbikes. A "bicycle" that can accelerate without the need to pedal at all is an electric motorcycle, no matter if you put pedal on it or not. I see the two as totally different things: I've tried pedal-assist e-bike and they're great. But... Although I have nothing against motorbikes I'm not cool at all…

> I see the two as totally different things: I've tried pedal-assist e-bike and they're great. But... Although I have nothing against motorbikes I'm not cool at all with basically motorbikes getting a free pass because they're disguised as bicycles.

Eh, it depends if you see pedal assistance being the defining difference between a bike and a motorbike.

From a safety perspective, speed may be a better differentiator.

Re: Show HN: Long Range E-Bike

#122

Post by jacquesm »

withinboredom wrote: post #117
jacquesm wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely. But spending time on your mobile phone has no place in traffic and that has nothing to do with being disabled. It's just being grossly disrespectful towards others and endangering them and yourself.

Sure it does if you’re in a cross walk. As a driver of a vehicle, you should be yielding to those as per their right of way and paying attention to anyone who might or might not take their right of way.

In practice: cyclist head down looking at their mobile phone swerving all over the road, two hands holding the phone to be able to text using whatsapp or whatever other IM they are using entirely lost situational awareness. I've seen enough accidents from this by now to become an advocate for substantially increased fines for cell phone use in traffic.

Re: Show HN: Long Range E-Bike

#123

Post by Closi »

pa7ch wrote: post #120
TacticalCoder wrote: post #27

We really need a terminology to differentiate better between pedal-assist only e-bikes ("pedelec") and electric motorbikes. A "bicycle" that can accelerate without the need to pedal at all is an electric motorcycle, no matter if you put pedal on it or not. I see the two as totally different things: I've tried pedal-assist e-bike and they're great. But... Although I have nothing against motorbikes I'm not cool at all…

I never understood while we regulate on the mechanism to engage the motor instead of top speed or max power.

Agreed, 70mph but you have to pedal to keep the bike going = e-bike (although an illegal one)...

15mph and has a throttle = electric motorbike (and also illegal)...

But make that 15mph illegal electric motorbike 10mph faster and add extra hardware so users have to waggle their feet around in a circle to trigger the motors... SUDDENLY LEGAL!

I highly doubt there are any safety benefits from pedalling - it seems like an arbitrary limit.

Re: Show HN: Long Range E-Bike

#124

Post by cactus2093 »

xchaotic wrote: post #19

It’s worth saying that it’s not to hard to train up to being able to do 100-200km rides with no electronic assist. At such distance, the weight saving is probably outweighing the battery and you can use the space in the frame can be used for luggage such as extra clothing. At longer distances the ride limiting factor is comfort, not stamina / endurance - here the Ebike adds nothing

This has got to be a troll comment. On an ebike on the top assist levels you can pedal leisurely at ~50watts and get 300 watts of output to travel at 30kph plus, and tackle any climbs with no issue, while not getting your heartrate up all that high. Sure 100-200km is still far and not everyone will want to go that far even on an ebike, but it's undoubtedly much easier than a non-assisted bike. You have to train pretty seriously as a cyclist and be in really good shape to ride 100+ km like it's no big deal. And you have to make sure you plan out water stops and plan enough food for the ~5000+ calories you will burn.

And "the weight saving is probably outweighing the battery", is completely untrue. The increased weight of an ebike is probably adding like 5-10 watts of drag on flat ground and maybe 20-30 watts on hills, while the motor is providing 250 watts of output. It's not even close to canceling out, that would be insane.

Re: Show HN: Long Range E-Bike

#125

Post by nybble41 »

jacquesm wrote: post #101
llampx wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you both can be correct. The more expensive e-bikes as sold in the EU are DRM'd to the hilt, whereas cheaper bikes sold elsewhere or assembled from kits won't have any restrictions. On reddit/r/ebikes you can see some crazy builds that would get you a hefty fine in most of Europe.

I did write 'these bikes', as in Bosch based e-bikes, specifically s-pedelecs. It is pretty obvious I'm only talking about this kind of bike, not about 'all bikes out there including those in other countries and cobbled together from parts'.

No one else was taking specifically about Bosch systems (edit: in the comments, not the article) until you came along, and your original reply didn't mention them by name. There are lots of e-bikes out there, including pure "pedelecs" with no hand-operated throttle, which do not use Bosch parts and do not have torque sensors. They assist when the pedals are moving, not when you're applying pressure.

Re: Show HN: Long Range E-Bike

#126

Post by vzaliva »

Unless you are doing some competitive riding, there is a reasonable limit for how long you want to ride per day. As a motorcyclist, I know well that distances of 350-600 miles per day are possible but taxing on your body. So for regular commute or light weekend riding (roundtrip), I would say 4-5 hours of battery life is sufficient. Depending on cruising speed, you can calculate the distance it will get you. Anything above that is just an extra unnecessary battery weight you are carrying.

Re: Show HN: Long Range E-Bike

#127

Post by glenjamin »

jacquesm wrote: post #28
TacticalCoder wrote: post #27

We really need a terminology to differentiate better between pedal-assist only e-bikes ("pedelec") and electric motorbikes. A "bicycle" that can accelerate without the need to pedal at all is an electric motorcycle, no matter if you put pedal on it or not. I see the two as totally different things: I've tried pedal-assist e-bike and they're great. But... Although I have nothing against motorbikes I'm not cool at all…

This is a pedal assist e-bike. There are people that cheat and that install throttles so they can move without pedaling but that's a great way to get your vehicle confiscated. A typical ride has me providing 40 to 60% of the Joules and the remainder comes out of the battery. If there is a very heavy wind up (not rare here) that might drop to 30/70 and if I have a tailwind it is the reverse. The bike has a nice stats…

Looking at those power numbers, I can't help but wonder how much you'd gain by doing this sort of modification on a bike that is more efficient and/or aerodynamic even without the motor attached.

A touring bike frame with 700c wheels and a more stretched out position would likely allow you to travel at the same speed for lower total power output - and make your battery go further (or not require such a large battery).

Re: Show HN: Long Range E-Bike

#128

Post by space_fountain »

Closi wrote: post #121
TacticalCoder wrote: post #27

We really need a terminology to differentiate better between pedal-assist only e-bikes ("pedelec") and electric motorbikes. A "bicycle" that can accelerate without the need to pedal at all is an electric motorcycle, no matter if you put pedal on it or not. I see the two as totally different things: I've tried pedal-assist e-bike and they're great. But... Although I have nothing against motorbikes I'm not cool at all…

> I see the two as totally different things: I've tried pedal-assist e-bike and they're great. But... Although I have nothing against motorbikes I'm not cool at all with basically motorbikes getting a free pass because they're disguised as bicycles. Eh, it depends if you see pedal assistance being the defining difference between a bike and a motorbike. From a safety perspective, speed may be a better differentiator.

I think something like average real world speed and weight are the two important metrics. Maybe this is the intuition with petal assist vs throttle controlled e-bikes. I do sort of think it should take some work to get a bike up to it's top speed so that riders don't just cruise at that speed.

Re: Show HN: Long Range E-Bike

#129

Post by globular-toast »

Closi wrote: post #121
TacticalCoder wrote: post #27

We really need a terminology to differentiate better between pedal-assist only e-bikes ("pedelec") and electric motorbikes. A "bicycle" that can accelerate without the need to pedal at all is an electric motorcycle, no matter if you put pedal on it or not. I see the two as totally different things: I've tried pedal-assist e-bike and they're great. But... Although I have nothing against motorbikes I'm not cool at all…

> I see the two as totally different things: I've tried pedal-assist e-bike and they're great. But... Although I have nothing against motorbikes I'm not cool at all with basically motorbikes getting a free pass because they're disguised as bicycles. Eh, it depends if you see pedal assistance being the defining difference between a bike and a motorbike. From a safety perspective, speed may be a better differentiator.

> From a safety perspective, speed may be a better differentiator.

Or perhaps momentum, which is far higher in motorised vehicles.

Re: Show HN: Long Range E-Bike

#130

Post by mdp2021 »

mikestew wrote: post #107
davidw wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm not cool at all with basically motorbikes getting a free pass because they're disguised as bicycles. As long as they'r not causing problems for other cyclists, they're still a big win in terms of transportation: way less carbon usage and occupies less space.

As long as they'r not causing problems for other cyclists And if a frog had wings, it wouldn't bump its ass when it hops. "Other cyclists"? They're not cyclists, they're motorcycle riders, for starters. Now any jackass can zoom down the bike path at 25-30mph, but yeah, as long as that doesn't cause problems...

You are strongly suggesting it yourself, that if not for the speed the difference would be negligible.

The other factor dividing the two realms in practice is control: in a bicycle the speed is directly a function of leg activity: does the "legs independent" motor-bicycle offer the basically same degree of control?

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