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Show HN: Long Range E-Bike

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Re: Show HN: Long Range E-Bike

#101

Post by jacquesm »

llampx wrote: post #90
jacquesm wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, sure, I'm making it all up. I just spent two months picking apart the Bosch e-bike system, I think by now I know what I'm talking about but feel free to prove me wrong and show me how you're able to get your battery to talk to a Bosch controller without using a Bosch BMS. Hint: you won't be able to, the key is embedded in an NXP processor that has it's fuses blown (both sides, controller and battery) and any kind…

I think you both can be correct. The more expensive e-bikes as sold in the EU are DRM'd to the hilt, whereas cheaper bikes sold elsewhere or assembled from kits won't have any restrictions. On reddit/r/ebikes you can see some crazy builds that would get you a hefty fine in most of Europe.

I did write 'these bikes', as in Bosch based e-bikes, specifically s-pedelecs. It is pretty obvious I'm only talking about this kind of bike, not about 'all bikes out there including those in other countries and cobbled together from parts'.

Re: Show HN: Long Range E-Bike

#102

Post by jacquesm »

QuercusMax wrote: post #86
jacquesm wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a pedal assist e-bike. There are people that cheat and that install throttles so they can move without pedaling but that's a great way to get your vehicle confiscated. A typical ride has me providing 40 to 60% of the Joules and the remainder comes out of the battery. If there is a very heavy wind up (not rare here) that might drop to 30/70 and if I have a tailwind it is the reverse. The bike has a nice stats…

My wife just bought an ebike (from RadPower) that has both pedal assist and a throttle that doesn't require pedaling. You can also adjust the amount of pedal assist so you can "feather pedal". Who's going to confiscate this bike????

Here in NL that e-bike would not be legal. It's quite possible that where you live that such a bike is legal. Do check up on it though to make sure!

Re: Show HN: Long Range E-Bike

#103

Post by jacquesm »

thinkmassive wrote: post #87
jacquesm wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't. These bikes are DRM'd to the hilt and any attempt at hacking them will cause the bike to brick itself which you can only reset at the dealership. You can do that three times and then it's permanent. The penalties for having such a hack detected on your bike - assuming you would get away with it - is confiscation. I would strongly advise against such tricks. You can see how much work just changing out the b…

> The penalties for having such a hack detected on your bike … is confiscation In what jurisdiction? Edit: just realized it’s your article and you’re in NL. Confiscation might be an issue there but it’s not universal by any stretch.

It's treated the same way as a souped up scooter would be. Get caught and you are more than likely to lose it. The good news is that you can then try to buy it back at government auction ;)

Re: Show HN: Long Range E-Bike

#105

Post by pcwalton »

jacquesm wrote: post #28
TacticalCoder wrote: post #27

We really need a terminology to differentiate better between pedal-assist only e-bikes ("pedelec") and electric motorbikes. A "bicycle" that can accelerate without the need to pedal at all is an electric motorcycle, no matter if you put pedal on it or not. I see the two as totally different things: I've tried pedal-assist e-bike and they're great. But... Although I have nothing against motorbikes I'm not cool at all…

This is a pedal assist e-bike. There are people that cheat and that install throttles so they can move without pedaling but that's a great way to get your vehicle confiscated. A typical ride has me providing 40 to 60% of the Joules and the remainder comes out of the battery. If there is a very heavy wind up (not rare here) that might drop to 30/70 and if I have a tailwind it is the reverse. The bike has a nice stats…

> There are people that cheat and that install throttles so they can move without pedaling but that's a great way to get your vehicle confiscated.

Note that this varies from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. In the US e-bikes with throttles are legally classified as Class 2 electric bicycles and are generally legal for use in bicycle infrastructure as long as they don't exceed 20 MPH.

FYI, the US classes are as follows: (1) 20 MPH (32 km/h) max, pedal-assist; (2) 20 MPH max, throttle; (3) 28 MPH (45 km/h) max, pedal-assist.

Re: Show HN: Long Range E-Bike

#106

Post by nybble41 »

jacquesm wrote: post #37
phreeza wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The pedaling aspect is also not really what matters, because you can in principle reduce the load factor so much that the pedals also just become a fancy throttle, no?

No, there is a direct relationship between the power exerted and the power the motor will add. There is a nifty torque sensor built into the cranks.

You're describing one particular kind of (high-end) e-bike. Many perfectly legal, unmodified e-bikes do not have torque sensors. If the bike has a cadence sensor, like mine does, then it doesn't care about how much torque you're applying to the pedals. All it cares about is how fast they're turning. And at the higher speeds (around the 20 MPH limit) the gearing and small wheel sizes on mine are such that one would need to pedal very fast to exert any significant pressure on the pedals. A much lower pedaling rate with no pressure will still maintain the top speed on level ground.

There is no significant difference between "pedal assist" and a hand-operated throttle. It would be really nice if the politicians would recognize this and remove the meaningless class 1 / class 2 distinction based purely on the location of the throttle. (Though to be fair there are many more sensible places which already treat them the same.)

Re: Show HN: Long Range E-Bike

#107

Post by mikestew »

davidw wrote: post #68
TacticalCoder wrote: post #27

We really need a terminology to differentiate better between pedal-assist only e-bikes ("pedelec") and electric motorbikes. A "bicycle" that can accelerate without the need to pedal at all is an electric motorcycle, no matter if you put pedal on it or not. I see the two as totally different things: I've tried pedal-assist e-bike and they're great. But... Although I have nothing against motorbikes I'm not cool at all…

> I'm not cool at all with basically motorbikes getting a free pass because they're disguised as bicycles. As long as they'r not causing problems for other cyclists, they're still a big win in terms of transportation: way less carbon usage and occupies less space.

As long as they'r not causing problems for other cyclists

And if a frog had wings, it wouldn't bump its ass when it hops. "Other cyclists"? They're not cyclists, they're motorcycle riders, for starters. Now any jackass can zoom down the bike path at 25-30mph, but yeah, as long as that doesn't cause problems...

Re: Show HN: Long Range E-Bike

#108

Post by koonsolo »

TacticalCoder wrote: post #27

We really need a terminology to differentiate better between pedal-assist only e-bikes ("pedelec") and electric motorbikes. A "bicycle" that can accelerate without the need to pedal at all is an electric motorcycle, no matter if you put pedal on it or not. I see the two as totally different things: I've tried pedal-assist e-bike and they're great. But... Although I have nothing against motorbikes I'm not cool at all…

As a motorcyclist, I would call them e-mopeds ;).

I think that is the best name, since mopeds also have pedals that nobody uses.

Re: Show HN: Long Range E-Bike

#109

Post by jacquesm »

pcwalton wrote: post #105
jacquesm wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a pedal assist e-bike. There are people that cheat and that install throttles so they can move without pedaling but that's a great way to get your vehicle confiscated. A typical ride has me providing 40 to 60% of the Joules and the remainder comes out of the battery. If there is a very heavy wind up (not rare here) that might drop to 30/70 and if I have a tailwind it is the reverse. The bike has a nice stats…

> There are people that cheat and that install throttles so they can move without pedaling but that's a great way to get your vehicle confiscated. Note that this varies from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. In the US e-bikes with throttles are legally classified as Class 2 electric bicycles and are generally legal for use in bicycle infrastructure as long as they don't exceed 20 MPH. FYI, the US classes are as follows:…

I'm not in the US.

Re: Show HN: Long Range E-Bike

#110

Post by koonsolo »

mikestew wrote: post #107
davidw wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm not cool at all with basically motorbikes getting a free pass because they're disguised as bicycles. As long as they'r not causing problems for other cyclists, they're still a big win in terms of transportation: way less carbon usage and occupies less space.

As long as they'r not causing problems for other cyclists And if a frog had wings, it wouldn't bump its ass when it hops. "Other cyclists"? They're not cyclists, they're motorcycle riders, for starters. Now any jackass can zoom down the bike path at 25-30mph, but yeah, as long as that doesn't cause problems...

In Belgium we have pedelecs (max 25kmh) and speed pedelecs (max 45kmh). Pedelecs are catagorized as bicycles, and speed pedelecs as scooters, which require a license plate and all other stuff, including their proper place on the road.
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