51–60 of 276 posts
Stay interested and keep working hard.
We're people who build things.
Our fortune is a natural one -- not money and not even respect.
It's that we are getting paid to learn new things every single day.
I think you're misrepresenting a few things, so I'll take a stab at it: 1. Senior software engineers at Google in Mountain View make over $200k all told. 2. Senior software engineer is in the middle of the Google ladder. The bulk of engineers at Google are senior level, so it's not special. The very best engineers make more. 3. You are vastly overstating the salary and difficulty of other fields. 3a. Doctor - You hav…
What % of programmers work at "software" companies? Here, in this space, that realm receives bulk of focus, and even there, most of these positions are of the one-off variety (or very small teams) compared to corporate IT where not so long ago, hundreds, even thousands of programmers worked in departments now staffed (in what I would estimate to be the majority of firms) by an amalgamation of offshore programmers and imported non-immigrant visa workers. Yes, these jobs pay more than lettuce picking, but the mechanism still serves as downward throttle on wages and bill rates.
There is colossal range in low-end to high-end in programmer pay. And jobs at the high end are not as plentiful as those on the low end. And developers in Silicon Valley (or big metro hubs) eclipse the rest of the country where it's not unfathomable for programmers to make less than 50K.
I will agree with the contention that the free agency nature of career field is driving out those who do it because they "_enjoy_ their work" -- in non-software corporate positions, I do not believe that was the norm until the 21st century.
agriculture is important, crucial and fundamental to human beings, while farmers don't usually get paid too much. Maybe lawyers shouldn't get that much money. Sometimes, they just don't contribute to humankind. Look at the patent war. Maybe programmers are underpaid, But I think someones else are overpaid.
China is not on the right track, that's for sure.
In China, people have the impression that engineering students are the smartest, whereas in the U.S. people think smartest student go to law school.
Software developers have unique opportunities and a culture of meritocracy. (It's hard to imagine a freelance actuary.)
There are a lot of very fundamental misunderstandings of economics and labor structures in here. But I'll start with the general objection that you'll run into: The core of your argument is entitled whining. Computer programmers can make truckloads of money the same way that everyone else can: by seeking it. If your professional goals are aligned with making money, then your chances of making a lot of money go way up…
he does have a point. lawyers and doctors both work in industries that are protected. anybody can come off the street and start slinging code. you can't come off the street and start lawyering and doing surgery even if you were more capable than the average doctor or lawyer.
True, you can't do that now. But going back to what he says about the industrial era of America, you could do that in an earlier age. The software industry and culture is only in its infancy in America.
There are a lot of very fundamental misunderstandings of economics and labor structures in here. But I'll start with the general objection that you'll run into: The core of your argument is entitled whining. Computer programmers can make truckloads of money the same way that everyone else can: by seeking it. If your professional goals are aligned with making money, then your chances of making a lot of money go way up…
Although one can get a programming "job" with little experience, or better yet just start programming with little more than a laptop and some free software - being a top-notch developer takes many Years of training.
As the computing industry and inherent complexity continue to grow, and as society relies more heavily upon it, we'll likely find similar barriers to entry. Programming is an infant relative to the practices of medicine, law, and other well established industries.
My ideal world is one in which everyone learns how to program along side math, science, language, and so on - just as we learn about health and civics, not to become doctors or lawyers but to become healthy members of society. If computers are to become an important part of human society, then programming them should be a part of the basic curriculum. The social respect of professional developers will surely grow as software development becomes better understood.
Not that I receive any lack of respect from my non-techie peers. But I certainly wouldn't mind being able to discuss my daily brain-benders with a stranger at the local watering hole-in-the-wall.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Firstly, if you disagree, that's fine. But saying my arguments are "entitled whining" isn't disagreement, it's name calling. DH0, to use Paul Graham's phrase. Secondly, some of my arguments might be wrong, but I provide numbers and evidence to back them up. "Likewise, programmers who define their goals economically (which broadly includes creating value for users) have nearly unparalleled earning potential." Evidence…
Many of the top programmers at Google are making much more than you mentioned in your post. The amount you mentioned is more in line with a ~20 something there, in total compensation. A Bachelors degree does not compare to medical school + residency (they also have to get a bachelor's before starting those two). While you're making money for 8 years at a comfortable 9-6, they're spending over 100k to train themselves…