Breakdown of data on homeless populations across the U.S. • Hacker News Board

Re: Breakdown of data on homeless populations across the U.S.

#71

Post by noahtallen » Thu, Nov 11, 2021, 10:08 PM UTC

rp1 wrote: post #29

This data is interesting because it illustrates how few chronic homeless people there are, and yet people who live in cities with large homeless populations will tell you how disruptive they can be. In NYC, a homeless person getting in your subway car ruins the entire ride. This tiny portion of the population has an outsized impact on everyone else. For this reason, among others, society should find some help for the…

Definitely. As an example, say you walk in your neighborhood to the transit station. A single encounter with someone with a mental health issue will be enough to give you the impression that things are worse than they are. One isolated instance of feeling unsafe had an outsized impact on how you feel about the neighborhood in general. It’s just human!

And unfortunately, in west coast cities, it’s not even that isolated. If there is a camp near-ish your neighborhood for some time, there will be a lot of instances. And as you go into the city, the more dense “downtown” parts are areas where people might not live all the time, but a lot of different people do experience them frequently, and a lot of homeless people may be there too. So thousands of people might get a subconscious feeling of being unsafe, just from a small number of people who might not even be acting in unsafe ways.

That’s why people see it as a crisis: a lot of people in west coast cities feel increasingly unsafe. That’s partly founded (because violent crimes are increasing), and partly unfounded (just someone’s impression of a different person they aren’t comfortable around). So there is a huge emotional response.

Re: Breakdown of data on homeless populations across the U.S.

#72

Post by mulmen » Thu, Nov 11, 2021, 10:08 PM UTC

klyrs wrote: post #67

mulmen wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you do if someone wants to sleep on the street? Where do you build these dorms? Are there barriers to living in these dorms? Sobriety requirements, job searching, etc? We should definitely try to solve this but I don't think it is simple at all.

> What do you do if someone wants to sleep on the street? This describes an incredibly miniscule number of people. There are a lot of problems with existing shelters (as mentioned quite a few times in thia thread) so currently it's hard to disentangle "wants to sleep on the streets" from "doesn't want the available alternatives." Yeah, there probably are a few folks like this. Having an oversupply of 1% isn't going t…

That doesn’t answer the question. I’m not opposed to building more shelter space. But what do you do with the people who don’t want to stay there?

Do you make it non-optional? Do you just accept that there will always be some people living on the street? At what point can a camping ban in public parks be reinstated and enforced? Can it ever be? Should it?

Re: Breakdown of data on homeless populations across the U.S.

#73

Post by woodruffw » Thu, Nov 11, 2021, 10:08 PM UTC

nostrebored wrote: post #66

woodruffw wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I will repeat this every time someone uses “favorable weather” to explain California’s barbaric treatment of its homeless: nobody wants to die of exposure. You can die of expose at temperatures well above what housed people consider “comfortable.” The number of homeless people who would rather stay outside in your “favorable climate” versus being afforded the basic dignity of a roof and room is a rounding error.

Honestly spoken like someone who hasn’t been homeless or is close to anyone who has been homeless. A lot of people are severely mentally unwell and do not want shelter. And the complicating factor is the percentage of people like this depends on the city! Eg Utah’s approach to homelessness probably won’t work for Oregon.

I have spent my entire life around the homeless, in a city that has a universal shelter mandate. I’ve also spent the better part of a decade volunteering in food pantries and community kitchens.

> A lot of people are severely mentally unwell and do not want shelter.

No. What they don’t want is to be corralled like livestock into shared living spaces, with no privacy or protection for their property. That’s not because they’re mentally ill; it’s because it’s degrading. Give mentally ill people the choice of dignity and they will overwhelmingly choose it.

Re: Breakdown of data on homeless populations across the U.S.

#74

Post by whimsicalism » Thu, Nov 11, 2021, 10:11 PM UTC

rp1 wrote: post #29

This data is interesting because it illustrates how few chronic homeless people there are, and yet people who live in cities with large homeless populations will tell you how disruptive they can be. In NYC, a homeless person getting in your subway car ruins the entire ride. This tiny portion of the population has an outsized impact on everyone else. For this reason, among others, society should find some help for the…

> a homeless person getting in your subway car ruins the entire ride.

i think it's more a person with one of a specific subset of mental illnesses that can ruin the whole ride.

not sure what the solution to that is.

Re: Breakdown of data on homeless populations across the U.S.

#75

Post by throwaway0a5e » Thu, Nov 11, 2021, 10:11 PM UTC

1986 wrote: post #44

nostrebored wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that people in the U.S. so often only see homelessness through the lens of where they live. Homelessness is a unique problem in each city. For example, the west coast has favorable weather and a history of being a destination for people after they are released from prisons or mental facilities. In cities on the east coast there is more leftist-narrative style homelessness: people who were depending on…

> an oversupply of homeless shelters that people refuse to use (due to restrictions on substance abuse etc.) There's a lot hiding in that "etc". Some other reasons people refuse to use (some) shelters: - shelter is / feels unsafe due to a subset of the sheltered population - shelter has a curfew that does not allow you to maintain your work schedule - shelter won't let you bring your child or pet or stuff

Shelter won't let you drink, even in moderation.

Re: Breakdown of data on homeless populations across the U.S.

#76

Post by xibalba » Thu, Nov 11, 2021, 10:12 PM UTC

klyrs wrote: post #67

mulmen wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you do if someone wants to sleep on the street? Where do you build these dorms? Are there barriers to living in these dorms? Sobriety requirements, job searching, etc? We should definitely try to solve this but I don't think it is simple at all.

> What do you do if someone wants to sleep on the street? This describes an incredibly miniscule number of people. There are a lot of problems with existing shelters (as mentioned quite a few times in thia thread) so currently it's hard to disentangle "wants to sleep on the streets" from "doesn't want the available alternatives." Yeah, there probably are a few folks like this. Having an oversupply of 1% isn't going t…

> This describes an incredibly miniscule number of people

Citation needed

Re: Breakdown of data on homeless populations across the U.S.

#77

Post by whimsicalism » Thu, Nov 11, 2021, 10:12 PM UTC

whakim wrote: post #65

r00fus wrote: post #60

What about red states bussing homeless to the west coast? https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/14/us/homeless-busing-seattl... Until it's not possible to simply ship your problems away (kind of like how we handle recycling), governments are incentivized to do the wrong things.

The article you cited literally states that only 5 percent of Washington state's unhoused population became homeless out of the state.

> only 5 percent of Washington state's unhoused population became homeless out of the state.

homeless is an incredibly broad term. i would be curious in the numbers split across different subsets, like homeless with schizophrenia.

Re: Breakdown of data on homeless populations across the U.S.

#78

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Nov 11, 2021, 10:13 PM UTC

woodruffw wrote: post #41

nostrebored wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that people in the U.S. so often only see homelessness through the lens of where they live. Homelessness is a unique problem in each city. For example, the west coast has favorable weather and a history of being a destination for people after they are released from prisons or mental facilities. In cities on the east coast there is more leftist-narrative style homelessness: people who were depending on…

I will repeat this every time someone uses “favorable weather” to explain California’s barbaric treatment of its homeless: nobody wants to die of exposure. You can die of expose at temperatures well above what housed people consider “comfortable.” The number of homeless people who would rather stay outside in your “favorable climate” versus being afforded the basic dignity of a roof and room is a rounding error.

[deleted]

Re: Breakdown of data on homeless populations across the U.S.

#79

Post by mattnewton » Thu, Nov 11, 2021, 10:14 PM UTC

FPGAhacker wrote: post #52

MomoXenosaga wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Homeless people aren't stupid. They go where they can live. Nobody wants to winter in North Dakota lol. More money in panhandling too I bet.

I thought that too about the weather but what about New York?

NYC is probably a local maxima, where everywhere around it is more expensive to live with less opportunity for panhandling / social services, and it is a long uncertain hike from there to somewhere that has weather as mild as the San Francisco bay. I also imagine that the social services in the south east are less desirable because of their politics around taxing less / spending less

Re: Breakdown of data on homeless populations across the U.S.

#80

Post by throwaway0a5e » Thu, Nov 11, 2021, 10:14 PM UTC

rp1 wrote: post #29

This data is interesting because it illustrates how few chronic homeless people there are, and yet people who live in cities with large homeless populations will tell you how disruptive they can be. In NYC, a homeless person getting in your subway car ruins the entire ride. This tiny portion of the population has an outsized impact on everyone else. For this reason, among others, society should find some help for the…

>yet people who live in cities with large homeless populations will tell you how disruptive they can be. In NYC, a homeless person getting in your subway car ruins the entire ride.

I dunno man.

I've ridden Boston and DC light rail systems pretty extensively (and NYC to a small extent) and never had an obviously homeless person ruin my ride. Heck, I can't even think of a specific instance where one did anything of note.

My coworkers on the West coast however...